bullet pullers? tough in large calibers

[sonny]

Here is a problem that makes me crazy!....When i have to pull a bullet at days end cause there was no shot(once again)hunting. I have a heck of a hard time with large caliber guns screwing in the bullet puller with a wooden ramrod,an pulling the ball in the field. I have no problem at home with my stainless cleaning rod, but would rather do it in field. With a ramrod that just comes to barrel end, an tapered to copy orig wooden rods.I crank an crank the tapered ball jag to grab the ball, an pull an pull to get the ball out. I even have a drill jag to make a pilot hole before insering the ball puller. I must be doing something wrong. Can anybody shed some light on the subject?.thanks.sonny

[Black Hand]

I made a bore-sized leather washer that I screw onto the puller to keep it centered in the bore.  I toss it down the bore to get the hole started and then while pushing down on the rammer I also twist.  I screw it into the ball until I "feel" the rod start to twist and then screw a little more.  At that point, the ball pulls pretty easy.  It helps to have well-greased patches and a long screw, leaving 3-4 inches of the rod protruding out of the muzzle.

That said, I have a puller extension (made by a friend) that screws into the rod (carried in the patchbox, also accepts a worm or a patch-jag) which gives me the extra length.

[Daryl]

Blackhand's method is pretty much the same as yours Sonny, except he uses a leather washer for centering his ball screw, instead of the 'fancy' tool Taylor made for the Bess.   

By tapered ball jag, I believe you're referring to the ball pulling screw. 

The 'drill jag' you mention is a drill with a brass collar to centre a drill which puts a proper sized hole in the ball for the screw, then the screw is turned into the ball, then out it comes more easily as the hole is perfectly centred. The reason for the screw is to make a hole of proper size, so the ball screw doesn't expand the ball too much, tightening it into the bore thus making it more difficult to remove.  It doesn't get any easier than that, really.

 If the bore is now rough, or fouled, pulling the ball can be more difficult. Pulling the ball with a short rod is difficult due to there being not much to hang on to.  A strong leather thong wrapped around the rod where it's down inside the bore, can help give 'power' to your grip when pulling the ball.

We've pulled a .735" balls cast of WW alloy and patched with a .030" patch from the Bess without difficulty.  They were lubed with a grease combination called "Moose Snot".   Clean shooting and easy loading.  They also pulled easily.  Other lubes or lack thereof may be more difficult to remove.

Just had a thought concerning ctgs., if the ball is in a paper ctg. it will probably turn in the bore as you're trying to screw in the ball screw and make it's removal difficult.

[Long Ears]

have you tried the CO2 discharger? They seem to work unless things are fouled bad or supper tight. You almost always need to load a new cartridge everytime you use it however. Just shoot it out. It is easier to clean it that fight the ball puller. safer too. Just my .02. Bob

[Dphariss]

Here is a problem that makes me crazy!....When i have to pull a bullet at days end cause there was no shot(once again)hunting. I have a heck of a hard time with large caliber guns screwing in the bullet puller with a wooden ramrod,an pulling the ball in the field. I have no problem at home with my stainless cleaning rod, but would rather do it in field. With a ramrod that just comes to barrel end, an tapered to copy orig wooden rods.I crank an crank the tapered ball jag to grab the ball, an pull an pull to get the ball out. I even have a drill jag to make a pilot hole before insering the ball puller. I must be doing something wrong. Can anybody shed some light on the subject?.thanks.sonny

The brass collared type from TOF works well for me.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/TableList.aspx?catID=6&subID=49&styleID=143
Dan

[sonny]

i have the super duper expensive custom made ball pullers which are tapered,an i think because they are heavy tapered threads, it makes it  tough to get the jag to bite. I also do not have a metal tip on the thin end of ramrod,just on the muzzle heavy end. I didn't want to deform the ball  when seating it so i leave it wood.Where can i get a 16 gauge self centering drill jag to pre bore the hole before trying to get the tapered jag to bite?

[BrownBear]

On rods that have threaded tips at each end, I just screw in an extension for more grip.

A bud of mine has one of these and it worked so well for him I bought one of my own. It's still the best thing I've ever tried when a ball is really stuck.

As for connecting with the ball in the first place, I agree with the need to center the screw by whichever method.  Haven't tried the leather washer, but that's top of my list.  Not an issue with screws having brass guide buttons, but not all mine do.

As for drilling before screwing, I have done so in the past, but have moved on.  In my experience to date, using a puller with a self-starting "sheet rock" screw has eliminated the need.  I may run into a situation where I have to drill again, but so far the sheetrock screw has been a viable alternative.

Gotta say I'm real leery of drilling in the first place.  If you happen to drill completely through the ball, you're Jim Dandy up a creek if the screw pulls free and you have to resort to compressed air or grease to remove the ball.

[sonny]

brownbear...arn't you afraid accuracy will suffer cause the small seating taps  will ding the ball? I can certainly make a rod extention an get a better grip, but sure don't want to mess up  muzzle crowns or accuracy .sheetrock screw !!!!hummmmmmmmmmmm. I have been paying for custom cleaning stuff, thinking it would work better then home made-maybe-oh well jags,.........nutts!!!!.............sonny

[BrownBear]

brownbear...arn't you afraid accuracy will suffer cause the small seating taps  will ding the ball? I can certainly make a rod extention an get a better grip, but sure don't want to mess up  muzzle crowns or accuracy .

I'm not following you.  My extensions are a 6" piece of brass stock, rod-sized and appropriately threaded on one end or both.  Threaded on each end you can put them between the jag and the rod if a rod has a fixture on only one end.  Other than when it's installed on the rod for removing balls, they live loose in the bottom of my bags.

[Robby]

I use the same tool as Round ball and Dan, plus the rod extension, but only at the range when I screw up. . Hunting, I just fire it off, safely of course. It seem easier to clean the fouling than trying to get all that unfired powder out of there.
Robby

[Collector]

May have covered this topic before, but depending on your caliber, you can carry or bring along U.S. military surplus cleaning rods/handles (M1-Carbine, BMG) for the job.  Just thread the jag/ball screw of your choice in the end and you're good to go.

Mr. Tom Patton passed this tidbit along, to me, some years ago and frankly, it doesn't get any simpler.  Unless, that is, you haven't had your Recommended Daily Allowance of 'Aggravation.'  

[Roger Fisher]

brownbear...arn't you afraid accuracy will suffer cause the small seating taps  will ding the ball? I can certainly make a rod extention an get a better grip, but sure don't want to mess up  muzzle crowns or accuracy .sheetrock screw !!!!hummmmmmmmmmmm. I have been paying for custom cleaning stuff, thinking it would work better then home made-maybe-oh well jags,.........nutts!!!!.............sonny

No need to over engineer this Sonny.  Shoot the sucker out or if not safe or whatever, use one of those Co2 dischargers and use it safely.  I carry one in my box for when 'other'  guys dryball

[Daryl]

Me too- Roger- when other guys dry ball. Actually, even the flinter will allow sifting enough 4F into it to blow the dry ball out.  If having to pull for some reason, the TOTW screw with collar to match bore size works perfectly.

Driling through the ball is not good, but is no problem - just use the right screw size and out it comes. This happened with a fellow's Italian gun a while back - last year on the trail, with an appropriate screw, out it came.

Just to ease things for everyone, Taylor made up a stainless rod with T-handle, muzzle protector, and a plastic bullet Box with every required screw and collar size for pulling any calibre balls. This 'rig' hangs in a two trunked Spruce Tree at the start of our trail.  If someone has trouble(dry-balls) on the trail and wants to use a dedicated rod and screw to pull the ball, they merely walk back and pull it.  I find it easier to sift in some 4F through the vent, or pull the nipple and sift in some 2, 3, or 4F and blow the obstructing ball out.

Instead of screwing with balls and such, I always used to shoot the load out then clean the gun at home.  If going hunting again in a few days, weeks or months, I'd just leave it loaded.  It's legal here as long as there is no powder in the pan (vent pic or feather in vent), or is not capped.

Like RB said, throw the rod into the ball, then 3 or 4 turns into the pure lead ball then try to pull it.  3 or 4 turns again if that pulls out and pull it. Never had to go further than 2 attempts.  Well lubed, smooth bore - they come out easy. With a WW ball, I recommend drilling a pilot hole first.

[David R. Pennington]

My solution was real simple (like me). I made a tapered hickory rod for my .50 that is almost bore size on the business end. The other end has a brass tip threaded to take the puller. The near bore size collar on the puller makes sure it centers on the ball. I made sure my ramrod hole was drilled as deep as possible and made my rod as long as possible without sticking out past barrel. This gives me enough length to leave me an inch or so hanging out of the bore even if I forgot the powder. I drilled a hole through the rod just above where the rod sticks out of the barrel when the rod is inserted. My flint tool/ turnscrew has a pick on one end that fits in this hole and now I have a tee handle to give me leverage when turning the puller into the ball and a good sturdy handle to pull it out with. I came up with this after I ruined a couple of rods with pliers trying to pull a ball and have used this same rod now for years and pulled more balls with it than I should admit.

[Dphariss]

Me too- Roger- when other guys dry ball. Actually, even the flinter will allow sifting enough 4F into it to blow the dry ball out.  If having to pull for some reason, the TOTW screw with collar to match bore size works perfectly.

One reason I carry FFFF priming powder.

Dan

[Larry Pletcher]

One reason I carry FFFF priming powder.
Dan

Hi Dan,
Me too. One of the advantages of a fine grained priming powder.

Another trick for pulling that we do at our club's covered firing line is an notched angle iron mounted on a rafter above our heads.  The notch is cut to hold onto the handle of a bench rod. After screwing the puller into the ball, you hook the benchrod handle on the angle iron notch and pull the rifle downward.  It's a very safe pull because no one is in line with the muzzle when the ball is pulled, and it's easy for one guy to do. I suppose we've all been in a situation where a ball is being pulled and we don't know for sure if it's a dry ball or a ball with a powder charge that won't for for some other reason.

If my habit was to pull a ball at the end of a hunting day, I'd mount a notched angle iron in my garage.  I don't like to be in front of the muzzle when a ball is pulled.

The notched angle iron idea came from the offhand line at Friendship. Another idea our club got from Friendship is to use a Fire extinguisher for co2 ball discharger. Handy, quick, and lasts forever. It sure spoils you if you are uswed to a co2 cartridge.

Regards,
Pletch

[Glenn Hurley Jr.]

Pletch,
How do you taper the fire extinguisher enough to fit the touchhole?
Glenn

[Larry Pletcher]

Pletch,
How do you taper the fire extinguisher enough to fit the touchhole?
Glenn

The one at the club has a hose and nozzle.  I assume a member plumbed it with the same type of end that the small dischargers use.  I remember when a member swapped the ends for either percussion or a flint vent.

Regards,
Pletch

[Daryl]

Forgot to mention the rod and box of screws, bushings, etc on the tree, also has a 2 pronged hook screwed intot he tree to loop the T handle on for pulling the ball by yourself.  It's quite slick in operation, not that I've ever had to use it, of course.

[Roger Fisher]

Me too- Roger- when other guys dry ball. Actually, even the flinter will allow sifting enough 4F into it to blow the dry ball out.  If having to pull for some reason, the TOTW screw with collar to match bore size works perfectly.

Driling through the ball is not good, but is no problem - just use the right screw size and out it comes. This happened with a fellow's Italian gun a while back - last year on the trail, with an appropriate screw, out it came.

Just to ease things for everyone, Taylor made up a stainless rod with T-handle, muzzle protector, and a plastic bullet Box with every required screw and collar size for pulling any calibre balls. This 'rig' hangs in a two trunked Spruce Tree at the start of our trail.  If someone has trouble(dry-balls) on the trail and wants to use a dedicated rod and screw to pull the ball, they merely walk back and pull it.  I find it easier to sift in some 4F through the vent, or pull the nipple and sift in some 2, 3, or 4F and blow the obstructing ball out.

Instead of screwing with balls and such, I always used to shoot the load out then clean the gun at home.  If going hunting again in a few days, weeks or months, I'd just leave it loaded.  It's legal here as long as there is no powder in the pan (vent pic or feather in vent), or is not capped.

Like RB said, throw the rod into the ball, then 3 or 4 turns into the pure lead ball then try to pull it.  3 or 4 turns again if that pulls out and pull it. Never had to go further than 2 attempts.  Well lubed, smooth bore - they come out easy. With a WW ball, I recommend drilling a pilot hole first.

Actually, good ol Sonny was referring to simply unloading after an uneventful day hunting and was not taking about a dry balled rifle...   Certainly all good information... We had a dryballed flinter at our Nov shoot and I worked in some 4 f ; but lost the pressure out of the vent and ended up using the Co2 cylinder anyway!

[Daryl]

Like RB said, throw the rod into the ball, then 3 or 4 turns into the pure lead ball then try to pull it.  3 or 4 turns again if that pulls out and pull it. Never had to go further than 2 attempts.  Well lubed, smooth bore - they come out easy. With a WW ball, I recommend drilling a pilot hole first.
  Actually, good ol Sonny was referring to simply unloading after an uneventful day hunting and was not taking about a dry balled rifle...  Certainly all good information... We had a dryballed flinter at our Nov shoot and I worked in some 4 f ; but lost the pressure out of the vent and ended up using the Co2 cylinder anyway!

Works for me - or if dryballed, enough 4F dribbled in to get the gun to blow it out. If not enough, it will spew out the vent. Tapping the top flat of the barrel (with the short starter knob) while leaning the gun over, helps it to go in behind the ball, then make sure the ball is seated down on the powder, but not blocking the vent - normal stuff for those of us who have done it, many times- either to our own guns or those of others.

[Stormrider51]

Call me a wimp but I don't like trying to pull a ball with a charge of powder behind it using a ball screw and rod.  I know the chances of the charge going off are very small but I'm a firm believer in Murphy's Law.  The idea of the overhead hook for the rod works but isn't always available.  I'd rather fire the shot in a safe manner and do a little swabbing/oiling to protect the bore until either reloaded the next day or fully cleaned at home.

Storm

[Jerry V Lape]

About lost a friend who was pulling a ball.  Really weird circumstances.  Boy Scout muzzleloading experience with senior scouts directing loading.  Rifle was loaded and didn't fire (percussion rifle) so they loaded a second on top of it. Again it didn't fire, so they loaded a third which also didn't fire.  Then they took it to the friend who was responsible to fix rifles that didn't work.  He tried to blow it out with CO2 which wasn't adequate with three loads in there.  Then he resorted to pulling the load.  While exerting pressure to get the screw into the third ball loaded the gun fired.  The rod and two of the balls passed between his fingers.  There was still a third ball in the gun.  It was then shot out using some FFFFg to get ignition.  The point is, please don't get in front of a gun with a load in it. With a T or Ball handle and a short piece of rope you can tie off the rod to a tree if needs be or hook it into the angle iron which every range should have.  Biggest mistake was people fooling with muzzleloaders who weren't properly trained including the adults running the thing.   Local muzzleloading club and NMLRA field reps cured that before the next Scout experience.  

We got a look at their powder supply too.  Someone had donated them about 25lbs of blasting powder!!

[Stormrider51]

RB - I agree that the chances are extremely slim of anything happening.  On the other hand I always follow the rule of not getting in front of a loaded gun.

Storm

[davec2]

I have had the same problem with pulling a ball over the years, and many other aspects of maintaining muzzleloaders, so I designed and made this shooting tool that I keep in my pocket or pouch.  Haven't had a problem since.





More info on how it all works and what it does here

http://www.luckybag.us/GunnersMate.html