Lock inletting

[Dennis Glazener]

How many of you inlet your locks without disassembling them?

The last 2 rifles that I built I inletted the locks without disassembling them and I really like doing it that way but it still scares me trying to properly position the lock. The way I have been doing it is to first pinpoint where I want the vent hole and prick it with a center punch (I NEVER drill the vent hole until after the lock is in-letted). Then I try to eyeball where the pan should be in relation to the vent and at the same time insure proper alignment lock tail. Then I drill the hole for the sear bar (to get the lock closer to the stock for final positioning). So far it this has worked but it still scares me knowing I can not move the lock very much once I start. Anyone have a different way of positioning the lock when not disassembling it before in-letting?
Dennis

[Bill of the 45th]

I haven't tried it yet Dennis, but have been thinking about doing it on the next build.  My thought was to just remove the sear, get the lock seated, then do the sear.  My thinking is it would be a bit easier to pinpoint the pan/touch hole location.

Bill

[FALout]

I still pull the parts to inlet the plate, then put everything back in and go from there.  Too much chance for getting something wrong for me, doubt I'm gonna change on that.

[smart dog]

Hi Dennis,
I always disassemble my locks.  I can inlet a lock that way very quickly (2 hours)and with less risk.  I find that the biggest drain on time is if you leave too much wood on the gun before inletting the lock.  I shave my lock panels down to almost finished dimensions and then inlet the lock.

dave  

[David R. Pennington]

Whats the advantage to inletting with assembled lock?

[P.W.Berkuta]

Hi Dennis,
I always disassemble my locks.  I can inlet a lock that way very quickly (2 hours)and with less risk.  I find that the biggest drain on time is if you leave too much wood on the gun before inletting the lock.  I shave my lock panels down to almost finished dimensions and then inlet the lock.

P. W. Berkuta
I also take the lock apart - stone the parts and case harden the tumbler hole - inlet the plate and then the parts always done it that way and I'm just too nervous to do it differently.

[flehto]

I just inlet the lockplate and do the "innards" later on after complete shaping of the butt. A completed lock area is too weak  for my "heavy hand " when shaping the butt.....Fred

[LynnC]

I know I inlet the first lock I ever did assembled and I think the 2nd..... Then I got my first gun building book 

Now I disassemble 

[Dave Faletti]

I take it apart and inlet the lock plate first.  I use a card template of the plate to get the outline located.  Then I start adding parts back on and inlet each additional piece.  What advantage is there in doing the lock assembly all at once? That would make it more difficult for me.

[camerl2009]

when i re stocked my traditions deer hunter i just did it with the lock disassembled and it was still a pain to me i went through 1 blank before i got it right 

[Hudnut]

From the standpoint of external apperance on completion, it might not matter.  If the internal inletting is to look as if the wood grew around the innards, might be better to do the inletting piece by piece in stages.

[smshea]

I just inlet the lockplate and do the "innards" later on after complete shaping of the butt. A completed lock area is too weak  for my "heavy hand " when shaping the butt.....Fred

I learned this lesson the hard way!

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

I too always disassemble the lock and only inlet the plate before inletting the inside parts.  Dennis, you must have a great amount of hand-eye coordination to inlet assembled!  I am afraid that if I tried this the final job would be poor.  Come to think of it, sometimes my job looks poor anyways.

When I make a gun barrel, the thing is already proof tested so I must inlet the lock to hit the existing flash hole.  I also position the front of the lock so the front lock nail will be in a decent position.  Normally I inlet the lock plate without cutting the pan hollow (I make my own forged wrought iron locks).  I try to balance the position taking into consideration the flash hole, forward lock nail, pan fence/breech, etc. (sometimes this is like juggling three balls at once).  I actually do not cut the pan hollow until after the barrel pins and tang screw are installed and tight.  Then, at last, I cut the pan hollow to mate up with the flash hole.  It works for me.

Jim Everett

[Jim Kibler]

There is no doubt that inletting a disassembled lock is the more common and accepted approach today, but there are at least a couple of the very best builders who have used the approach of inletting when assembled.  Wallace Gusler showed this approach in the "Gunsmith of Williamsburg" film and Mark Silver uses this technique in his video on rifle stocking.  So I guess in my mind the point of this post is not necessarily just a poll of what method people use, but to consider there are other less common techniques used by some of the most accomplished builders.

[Swampwalker]

I hear you Jim, I'm aware some do it that way.  I just inlet a lock the 'normal' way, and was thinking about it while inletting that lock, and for the life of me I can't think of any advantages to inletting it without dissassembly.  Yet I can think of a number of reasons NOT to do it as a single unit, like the problem of alighnment.  Or perhaps we're way to anal about such issues today.  What would be the advantages of inletting the lock without dissassembly?

[Tom Currie]

I would think speed and efficient use of time would be the reason to inlet as a single unit. It won't be as pretty as inletting each time you add a single lock piece but with care it doesn't have to be sloppy. I did one this way ( with sear removed ) once and it came out OK. Like anything else with practice you'd get better at it.  Like Swampwalker said " We are probably too anal today .

[Pete G.]

I use soot for inletting black, so I have to disassemble for cleaning/polishing anyway. There may be some locks out there that are perfectly good to go as is, but I've never run across one. I suspect if someone were to put out a perfectly tuned and polished lock very few would be willing to pay the price.

[Long John]

Since my focus is on performance I locate the vent first.  Then I inlet the pan so it is a perfect a location as possible.  Then I attach the pan to the plate and let in the plate.  Then I continue adding one part at a time. 

I am a hobby builder so I am not racing against the clock or an estimated time budget for a completed gun.  It takes me 3 to 4 hours to get a nice inlet on a Chambers lock.

Best Regards,

JMC

[satwel]

I always disassemble the lock, inlet the plate first, then inlet for the individual parts as I add them back onto the plate. I can't begin to imagine how one would go about inletting an assembled lock with any kind of precision.

[Bob Roller]

All of my locks are polished internally,springs,screws,tumbler,the internal surface of the plate, The flintlocks are sometimes polished,frequently not. Caplocks,both sides polished with more attention paid to the inside than the outside.
You're partly right about most makers not willing to pay for the work in such a lock but I only work with the few who will. I offered to make 10 Twigg locks at $300 apiece and 9 people bought all of them, I have only #9 and 10 to go plus one for a customer in South Africa who was out of his country when I made the offer. He wants set triggers with that one also.
Years ago,when I offered polished and detailed locks,they were next to impossible to sell and I'd get phone calls telling me how cheap they could get a lock for from wherever they bought from. My answer was and is."Go for it"!
I replied to an ad from Guenter Stifter in Germany about his cut flints and he sent me some samples.I then sent him a sample of what was NOT wanted in the USA for a lock and he said they would buy any and all I wanted to make and not to worry about $2. Pistols were the big thing then in Germany and I supplied a flintlock of the Bailes style and a percussion lock like one found on a Swiss Weber&Reusch
31 caliber target pistol. After that,there were Schuetzen rifle locks and the curved double set triggers for the fish belly stocks used on them.
I am semi retired now and if I make a lock for someone,that's fine and if not,I am not concerned. I still get requests from a German shop for different locks and I make up mostly Shuetzen locks and once in a while,a Durs Egg using the L&R external parts with my own custom mechanism inside.
Now it's a fun and games thing,nothing serious.

Bob Roller

[Jim Kibler]

Bob,

Did you mistakenly post your reply on the wrong topic?  How does this have anything to do with lock inletting?

Jim

[Jim Kibler]

I personally haven't inletted the lock without disassembly.  I do think it's important to consider other ways than you use to complete a task.  Bottom line, it Wallace and Mark use the method and think it is a good process, it at the very least deserves some consideration, even if you can't envision it being a good process.

Jim

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Not to mention that based on that information, Dennis has successfully inlet his last two that way....

[Hudnut]

If you look at the inletting on originals, some are beautifully done.  You can see where the slots in the screwheads lie.  Others have a hole into which the lock drops.
I think it is easier to do a premium job in stages.
A first class worker could do a very respectable job inletting an assembled lock.
Really, its all about what works for you.  There is no right or wrong, as long as the lock is stable and properly located.

[The other DWS]

I'm wondering if a production gunsmith who may have dealt with one or two standard type/style/mfg locks might not have made a set of templates that would let him, or an apprentice, drill and chisel out the lock mortice much more rapidly than all the disassemble, reassemble,cut and try, cut and try we do now days?