Author Topic: Sweep Gouges  (Read 6036 times)

Offline Eric Smith

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Sweep Gouges
« on: January 15, 2012, 03:24:07 AM »
Can someone please explain to me about gouges. They come in different sweeps I guess. #1, #2, #3, all the  way up to a #9, or so they do at Woodcraft.com. What do the different sizes mean in relation to using the to build a longrifle and where are they applyed best? Thanks from the new builder just beginning.
Eric Smith

Offline David Veith

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 03:35:17 AM »
it referers to how much curverture it has. with one almost flat
David
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Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 05:25:34 AM »
Go to the Woodcraft website and request their catalog.  It has a chart of the sweep dimensions in it.  Or pick one up at their store.  In general, a gouge with some curvature is better at cutting across the grain without tearing than a flat gouge.  Beyond that the curvatures are mostly to your taste.  If you do stab in method to carve the decorations on your stock, the various curves matched to your design help greatly with the outline.  Width of a gouge relates to size of the detail you are working on in many cases. 

Offline FALout

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 06:28:00 AM »
There is no guide line in what gouges you will need for rifle building, nor in any type of carving.  As Jerry stated, by having different shapes of gouges, you can use them to stab in so as to get a better, smoother curve.  To compound the problem in choosing, there are also different widths in each curvature size.  What you might want for carving, may not be exactly what you want for shaping the stock, but they could still be used for that purpose.  Most knife manufactures start at 2 (being only slightly curved) to 10 or more (being really rounded in shape).  I remember reading somewhere about suggested sizes, went out and bought most of those sizes, those knives were the least used ones that I now have.  For me, I thought about what I needed to get certian things done, what would make life easier for me.  I went and bought a few of them, and as I used these tools, I based my next purchasing decision, and I slowly built up what I now have.  Yes there were some bad choices, that can't always be avoided.  I have a collection of Phiel, Two Cherry, Flex-cut, and custom made with Flex-cut being the majority.  With proper care, storage, and sharping, they all will do the job.  Carving can be addictive, I've done a lot of caricatures and reliefs that were just as fun to make as rifles, the only way to learn is by doing it.
Bob

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 06:56:08 AM »
Go to the ALR Home Page, click on the heading "Gunbuilding".  Select "Sharpening" along the left side menu.  Scroll down to the section titled "Carving Gouges".  There is a graphic of a Golden Mean Derived Volute.  It is broken down into the nine numbered gouges that correspond to the various curves making up the volute.

Sorry, but I couldn't figure out how to post the picture here.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 06:56:52 AM by Karl Kunkel »
Kunk

Offline Curtis

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 09:32:13 AM »
Here are links to a couple of gouge charts:

Pfiel:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Articles/Articles.aspx?articleid=396

London pattern (English):
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/london_pattern_carving_chisels.jpg

Hope this helps.

Curtis
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Meteorman

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 05:34:34 PM »
... and where are they applied best?

that's an expansive question Eric !

to address one small part of the answer... you will be inletting parts with curved profiles, say, the nose of the lock plate.
If you are a "stabber-in" (as opposed to, say, a knife cutter), stabbing in a smooth radius with a straight edged chisel is hard. 
so stabbing with a gouge with a sweep matching the inlet radius is a big help.  at least to me.
Many people do it many different ways.
Before I started to build up my gouge collection, I did curved inlets with a modified X-acto knife;  it's do-able, but more difficult to get really good results, in my opinion.
I currently reach constantly for my Pfeil 4/3 - it's small enough that I can make it work pretty smoothly around almost any radius.
(4 sweeps are in their catalog, if not on their website).
I think my next purchases will be a 5/3 and 6/3.  But that's just me.
Some folks may have a bigger width gouge that does, say, a Siler nose in almost one stab.
Lots of ways to get at it - best to make a small investment in a couple and see what works best for you, and what your next best purchase would be. 
and it seems there's always a next best purchase.....
/mike

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 05:50:29 PM »
When you sit down and really start to study carving patterns you will begin to see the tools that made those patterns. I would suspect that an apprentice would first learn how to make his tools, which involves metal forming and hardening with a bit of wood working and fitting of the handles. Obviously he would produce a tool that would be similar to that in use by the master. He then takes these tools with him at the end of his apprenticeship. Following this logic it is easy to see why the apprentice's carving pattern becomes similar to the master.

Modern builders it seems, tend to reverse this process in first laying out the pattern and then finding the tools to match, but most modern builders don't produce the same pattern repetitively. I will use the sweep charts and compare to my proposed pattern and make notes on where to use which sweep, then usually find that I lack two or three sizes and end up using my knife to cut in the pattern. The lesson here is that you can never have too many tools.

The other DWS

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 05:55:04 PM »
Then too there are the inside and outside bevel variations with their own applications.  You can NEVER have too many gouges and chisels.  some may not be used very often,  but the time comes when you need it and it is a lifesaver.
  If I could wish for only one thing it would be the skills and tools to make my own gouges as I need them.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 06:19:44 PM »
My advice if your just getting started is to maybe pick up a few gouges and start building.  These can be new ones, old ones found at antique stores etc. or you could even make some.  Get a few and have at it.  As you build and learn you will begin to understand what tools will help and can add to them over time.

Offline flintriflesmith

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 09:17:39 PM »
I agree with Jim's approach but wanted to add that I have found that chisels needed for inletting are not the same as those you might need for relief carving.
I used the same set for both for many years and eventually decided that carving chisels could be harder and sharpened to a thinner edge (lower angle) than the ones for inletting a lock or patch box. Also, if you use the carving set for inletting you will need to resharpen some of them before you can do decent carving.

Gary
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Offline Eric Smith

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 05:23:47 PM »
I'm a long way from carving. Right now I am learning lock and barrel inletting, and stock shaping.
Eric Smith

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Sweep Gouges
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 03:49:59 AM »
I'm a long way from carving. Right now I am learning lock and barrel inletting, and stock shaping.

You're closer to carving than you think....