Some good photos of longrifles on an auction site

[David Rase]

As the web master for the HCH site I often times receive requests from various visiters to the site to pass information on to guild members.  Most of the time I have no means to share the info in a timely manner so it just gets deleted.  The latest request was to share the information for this upcoming auction with members.  I am not promoting this auction but wanted to post this link on ALR because there are a lot of good photos of original rifles that might be appreciated by our members.  Hope you enjoy the pictures.  The quality is pretty good.
DMR
http://www.auctionflex.com/showlots.ap?co=23728&weventid=0&weventitemid=0&wmaingroupid=0&wcatmastid=46&inventorytype=&minyear=2008&minmonth=11&minday=25&maxyear=2009&maxmonth=11&maxday=25&keyword=&lotsortorder=&pagenum=1&action=&lang=en

[Ken G]

David,
Thanks for the link.  It's a good opportunity to get quality pictures for reference.  The Jamestown guns are pretty good.
Cheers,
Ken

[FlintRock Rob]

Hey, neat batch of guns, thanks for the post David!

Does anyone else think that long brass "wear plate" between the trigger guard and the thimble on the Adam Angstadt rifle is there to cover up a ramrod hole that came out the bottom of the stock? 

[JTR]

Hey! That Angstatt is one of my old guns!
Mike sold it for me in 2002 and I think I got $8500 for it then.
I guess the current $6K to $9K estimate shows todays tough times.
John

[J.D.]

Thanks for posting that,David. I love the Jacob Lauck rifle.

Anyone care to guess on a possible year of manufacture?

My uneducated guess would be 1830s

God Bless,
J.D.

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

This collection is vaguely familiar in that most of the NC rifles were for sale through Antiques Royale for the last 2 years though their email was not recently responsive. The Sell Rifle, once described as having the finest Sell carving , was offered intially for $12,500 and sat for months ar $7,500 unsold. Many of the guns were said, by the antique shop owner, to have been restored ...buyer be beware, but I don't know the details.
Many thanks for pointing out the auction.
Hurricane

[GrampaJack]

Thanks for the post David. I have been looking for good pictures of an Albright for quite a while. You made my day. Jack

[msmith]

I know that dealers and those that bought for an investment wont admit ,but I think that antiques are going down,in price that is.I am sure that they will be exceptions.People are generally holding on to their money.Lets see what these longrifles go for.Just a thought.Expensive rifles are setting a little longer.Modern guns are selling like hotcakes those less than 1000.00 due to the admisntration change,only.I just bought an early flintlock that the seller told me that he paid much more years ago.I think things are going to get interesting and serious.I may be wrong I usually am.Have a great Thanksgiving, "Be Thankful".M Smith

[mr. no gold]

Thank you for adding to the prospect of a nice Thanksgiving by directing us to a website with some fine rifles to look at. I say look at because like many, I'm going to sit pat for awhile. I have seen and held the Angstadt rifle and it is just a beauty. The photos don't even come close to portraying it as it really is. The Rebelin was part of the Bowers Collection a long time ago and when sold at auction went for a bunch. I do not remember the figure but it was surprising. The stock was then rebuilt into a complete rifle. You may say Uh-oh! but how many Rowan County, NC rifles, especially by Rivilin are for sale, ever? I've been around collecting for 50 years and have yet to see one, aside from this.
The Lauck rifle is indeed a dandy and looks (by the round tailed lock plate) to be made in the early 1820s. The collection is a nice one and it's too bad the owner is selling off what obviously is a nice group of rifles, etc. Especially in these tough times.
Thanks again David. Happy Thanksgiving to you and to all!
Best-Dick

[Tanselman]

I think that Hurricane's comments on possible restoration should be headed on these rifles.  This grouping of guns appears to be a "culled" collection of rifles with most having restoration or questions about them. There appear to be a good number with either reparied wrists or old cracks in the wrist. I'd suggest the "unmarked Lancaster rifle" is really a New England gun, and the stocks on the Kuntz and Melchior Fordney are both pretty questionable.  It's always fun to see new longrifles, but I'd be a little careful with this collection... although the Angstadt looks pretty good from the pictures.  Kind of reminds me of the Bill Bowers collection sold through Condon, when many who attended were disheartened by all the restoration when the impressive list of guns were finally seen in person.  Shelby Gallien

[GrampaJack]

Some interesting comments. As I said in my post above I was especially glad to see the pictures of the Albright. I have had one for years that was attributed to him but was never sure. I compared mine to the picture on the auction site and, with the exception of the carving, they are absolute twins. Mine is unsigned. What is the opinion of the originality of the Albright in the auction? Best Regards, Jack

[Tanselman]

The Albright's finish is very evenly colored, without the expected lighter areas from wear at the wrist, grip area, etc. It doesn't have the mellow dark-light contrast of an old, worn and oxidized finish. This indicates it is probably refinished.  Its wrist shows a couple of cracks in one of the photos, but without a good top view of tang and surrounding wood at wrist, it's hard to tell just how extensive any wrist damage might be. The gun may be relatively complete, just refinished. But whenever a gun has been refinished, you should always check it a little closer to see if the refinish is hiding other stock repairs such as replaced wood slivers, etc.   Shelby Gallien

[GrampaJack]

Thanks Shelby. My patch box, trigger guard, lock, stock shape, and escutcheon under the lock bolt are exact matches. The only difference I can see is the inlay on the cheek on mine is an elongated "man in the moon" as opposed to the oval on the auction gun. Try as I might I haven't been able to "wish" a signature on mine - may haps I just need to wish harder. Thanks again, much appreciated. Jack 

[mbriggs]

I have seen these rifles in person, and all is not what it seems. The William Lamb Patchbox rilfe is not signed. The advertising would lead you to believe it is signed by him. William was just one of 87 gunsmiths who worked in the Guilford County - Jamestown Longrifle School. I have seen two other rifles signed by him that generally look like this, (combination of Full-stock, Patchbox, and back-action lock), but I have also seen and owned rifles signed by other Jamestown gunsmiths with this same set up.

Those of you that own John Bivin's Book, the "Longrifles of North Carolina" should turn to pages 96 & 97 and look at Gun number 18. This is all that is original to the gun listed as a Ribelin.  This rifle is also not signed anywhere. The other known Ribelin rifles are signed I.R. or J.R. on the Patchbox lid. Signed Rifles by George Eagle and John Eagle are also found. I have one of them that is signed G. Eagle on the Christmas Patchbox lid.  Before you invest too much money in this rifle, remember that the entire fore-stock, the lock, triggers, trigger guard, side plate and the barrel are all new to the rifle. The restoration is well done.     

Here is a couple of photos of two of my favorite guns, both described above.



This first rilfe is signed by Robert H. Polk. He worked in Southern Guilford County in the 1820's and 1830's. His gunshop was located on Pole Cat Creek. He later moved in Indiana.



You will note that the Patchbox is identical to the one of the unsigned Longrifle at the auction that is advertised as a William Lamb.


Here are photos of my George Eagle.



[imghttp://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj177/mbriggs_photo/PICT0271.jpg]http://[/img]

This is the only Rowan Longrifle that I have seen that features an Eagle Sitting on top of the Christmas Tree.









I will also include a photo of a Christmas Tree Patchbox signed by Isaac Ribelin.

.

I hope this information helps.

Michael Briggs

[timM]

Mr. Briggs,......thank you for taking the time to post these photo's of your rifles, I can understand why these two rifles might be your favorites!  I very much admire what you have collected and have shown on this forum.   Again, thank you.  tim

[Dennis Glazener]

The auction prices for these rifles are now posted. http://www.auctionflex.com/showlots.ap?co=23728&weventid=0&weventitemid=0&wmaingroupid=0&wcatmastid=46&inventorytype=&minyear=2008&minmonth=11&minday=25&maxyear=2009&maxmonth=11&maxday=25&keyword=&lotsortorder=&pagenum=1&action=&lang=en  I wanted the Lauck but not at that price! Not signed and a 37" barrel.
Dennis