Original Gunsmith Tools - HDTDT

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

On the topic of the "barrel coning tool - maybe", I mentioned that there are several tools in the Fry gunsmith collection that need your input to try to determine their use.  Some of these may or may not be gunsmithing tools at all.  Give us your best guess and maybe we will discover something interesting.

1.  This first tool seems to be a piloted spot facer.  I believe that it was used to put the little circular flat on a percussion drum for the nipple shoulder to seat against, at least it is about that size.  The diameter of the counterbore seems rather small for a lock sideplate screw head.



2.  The next is a small spot facer tool without a pilot and the shank in a definite hexagon shape.  My best guess on this one was to make a flat bottomed hole under the nipple seat of a percussion drum.  The hole drilled and later tapped for the nipple would have the drill bit pointed end, maybe Fry thought a flat bottomed hole here was better.




3.  This next tool, I don't have any good idea.  It appears to be similar to a cherry, only the cutting teeth are significantly different.  They appear to be acting somewhat like a reamer, anyway it is very well worn - any guesses?



4.  Here are some more spot facer type tools.  Any ideas what gunsmithing job they would have been used for? 





5.  Here are some tools that I suspect were not used for gunsmithing at all, but maybe I am mistaken.  They seem to be valve seat grinders for reaching down into a valve body to form the seat.  The only possible gunsmith use I can think of is to form that large circular cut in the frame of a percussion cap box for the lid.







6.  Last, here are some cherry looking tools.  The top is very much like a modern rotary bur, but it seems to be too sharp for a countersink.  The bottom is weird.  It looks like a half cherry with cutting teeth on the front flat.  maybe the elusive ear wax remover?



Let's hear from you guys.

Jim Everett

[dannybb55]

wow!!!

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

here are some photos of tools that would have been used by gunsmiths in the 18th c.  They, of course, are C-clamps and they work pretty much as the modern ones do.





Jim

[MAC57]

As far as the cutters, I have no ideas. The C clamps got my attention. I think I will have to make a few just for a project. Thanks Jim.

Mark

[dannybb55]

The clamps look like quilting clamps, how deep are they?

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

These C-clamps are a lot larger and more robust than quilting clamps, about 5 inches fully open.  They would make a good project for a smithing session.

Jim

[Eric Laird]

It's hard to tell specific size without a scale, but could some of the "cherry-like" and flat bottomed spot reamers have been used in the manufacture of rear sights? Making the recess on the front side of a rear sight blade (to thin the rear sight blade where the apeture is cut) is always something I wrestle with, but these images have given me some ideas. Just my two cents.

Thanks for creating all of these "HDTDT" posts!

Eric

[okieboy]

 Jim, I think that tool number 3 is in fact a reamer for sizing a hole in flat stock. Think of the hole for the tumbler in a lock plate, drill the undersize hole and then follow with this tool for precision, but no need for the longer flutes that our minds associate with reamers.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here is another gunsmith tool that is very useful, especially in screw making.  It is a pin vise and is used to hold steady those small, cylindrical parts for finishing and polishing.  The vise has split jaws that are tightened on the part by a collar that slides along the tapered jaw arms.  I am sure that you can see how it works, and how very useful it is.  No more smashed threads when trying to hold the screw in a bench vise!  A modern substitute is to use an extra jacobs chuck to hold the part.

Jim

[Bob Roller]

That pin vise is neat. I do use Jacobs chuck for holding screws during the slotting process.
I like to make my screws look as much as possible like the mid 19th types found in high quality English locks and this means a chuck,a miniature saw and a knife file with a very acute  narrow angle.
Does anyone on this list have any sources of high quality needle and other small files in fine cuts like 4-6 or 8? I prefer American,Swiss,English or German manufacture.

Bob Roller

[Dphariss]

That pin vise is neat. I do use Jacobs chuck for holding screws during the slotting process.
I like to make my screws look as much as possible like the mid 19th types found in high quality English locks and this means a chuck,a miniature saw and a knife file with a very acute  narrow angle.
Does anyone on this list have any sources of high quality needle and other small files in fine cuts like 4-6 or 8? I prefer American,Swiss,English or German manufacture.

Bob Roller

Try MSC I think this link will take you to Swiss (Grobet) needle files. Search the site for needle files for other brands
http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/SearchServlet/Abrasives/Files-Sticks-Stones/Files/Swiss-Pattern-Files/_/N-77cki?refinement=4294900061&searchandizedOk=N&currentMSCtt=needle+files&currentRawInput=needle+files%A2needle+files&currentMSCtk=All_MSC&currentMSCtx=mode+matchallpartial
 They list them to #6 cut.
Dan

[JDK]

Take a look at these guys too.  They list allot of Grobet files under "abrasives".  While I have not ordered any Grobet files from them I have found their prices on Nicholson files a lot less than MSC.  http://studer.dreamscape.com/  J.D.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Another tool that has many uses in the gunsmith shop is a set of dividers.  This is a page from the mid-18th c John Wyke tool catalog showing one that is forged from one piece, not separate legs and spring.  A real challenge for a skilled blacksmith here.



Here is a photo of two 18th c dividers.  The ones with separate legs & spring are 19th c - 20th c.  Try to find some of these as they are really useful in the shop.

Jim

[JDK]

I believe this type was made well into the 20th century as I have ones marked L.S. Starrett.  You are very right about them being indispensible around the shop.  J.D.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here is an interesting tool that is not specifically a gunsmith tool, but probably most did have something like this.  It is a small claw hammer that looks like it was made by a smith who also made tomahawk heads.  The hammer head is a beautiful octagon shape that looks like it belongs on a 'hawk.  Also, the hammer rings beautifully when you use it - like a good tuning fork.  So - you get great music to accompany your work, what could be better?

Jim

[dannybb55]

My old claw hammer has a single dimple in the face, slightly off center, where the carpenter struck the nail nearly every time. These claws are as old as Rome, the adze
 eye hammers are the new ones.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here are some more common and mundane tools from the 18th c that we still use today.  These are box lock plyers - I guess that they got their name from the box lock flintlock mechanism - they are still called this today.  Blacksmiths, try to imagine how to forge and make this mechanism, a real challenge for sure.
[



This scan is from the mid 18th c John Wyke tool catalog showing the same tool.



This is a tool that has not been improved upon in any way by modern technology.  I think that now only the very most expensive tools are made with a complete box lock mechanism

Jim

[kutter]

In the first post,,pic#6,,the last bit with the cutting teeth on the back side.

I use something similar, though much smaller to cut a countersink inside receivers and other parts that I plug unwanted drilled & tapped holes in.

Being unable to get at the inside of a receiver from the opposite side, I make small cutters that slip into the hole from inside the part. They have the teeth on the back side of it like the tool in question. I pull it up through and lock it into the chuck of a drill press or sometimes a free hand drill and cut the internal counter sink by pulling back from the work while turning.

The first one I made I forgot to reverse the teeth direction and had to run the tool in reverse,,but it doesn't really make a difference.

The tool in question may have nothing to do with my thoughts. The hole has to be at least as large as the shank at it's largest dia.
But perhaps in a wood working or metal riviting situation where working space is limited on one side, It was used to countersink from the opposite side of the work.

[James Wilson Everett]

Kutter,

The tool you describe seems to be similar to some modern cutter bits that I have seen somewhere on this website that are used to cut an internal countersink in the flintlock flash hole.  It would be interesting to see a photo of your tool.  I do not think that the old tool was used this way because the tool shank is too large in diameter and too long, but it does seem to be used to cut on the pull.

As for making the cutter teeth backwards, I have done that, too.  My muzzle chamfer tool looks like a very large cherry, but when I cut the teeth Irealized that the tool must be rotated anti-clockwise.  Oh well, God is perfect, not me.

Jim

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here is another interesting old tool, it may have been used by a gunsmith, too bad it can't talk.  It is a very early example of adjustable plyers.  It functions very similar to modern "channel lock plyers".  I really do not know the date it was made, almost certainly sometime in the 19th century.  I doubt if it is earlier.  It is forged from wrought iron.  Changing the pin location pivot hole will change the jaw opening range.  Whoever dreamed this one up was really bright.

Jim