Author Topic: Cold Brown (Read 9459 times)

Roger Fisher · « **on:** January 24, 2012, 11:30:29 PM »

Ok assume you are at the point in your latest effort, that you have decided to use said cold brown on a So Mt Long Rifle. You are thinking why do I have to take all the iron hardware back off (after it is so neatly fitted) to put it thru the browning process? Question arises, has anyone out there figured out how to brown the parts ON the stock, w/o the solution bleeding in to the stock? . And do you do this as a regular practice? Would save a lot of work, for some folks. I'm seldom in a rush (lately), so I take the parts off the gun to do the cold brown. Anybody??

Iron nosecap gets it on the gun (darn carefully though)

Long John · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2012, 11:44:58 PM »

Roger,

I always take the parts of the gun for browning. I used the Laurel Mountain solution for my last effort and was very pleased with the outcome. I did find that it is still of paramount importance to get the parts totally clean if you want a nice finish. I don't know how you would be able to do that with the parts on the rifle. Totally clean means first wash in hot soapy water, then wash down with mineral spirits and lacquer thinner and then a second hot soapy water wash, all while wearing cotton canvas gloves so no hand oil gets on the metal. What would a treatment like that do to the wooden stock?

I think it is easier to take the parts off for polishing and browning.

Best Regards,,

John Cholin

mattdog · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2012, 12:18:37 AM »

"Totally clean means first wash in hot soapy water, then wash down with mineral spirits and lacquer thinner"

Um, yes and no. Mineral spirits is not a degreaser and you are in fact contaminating your work if you use it.

I handled a call from a customer who could not get his barrel to brown. I asked him what procedure he used to clean and degrease. He said he used mineral spirits. Bingo, easy diagnosis. Told him to go get a can of Laquer thinner instead. He was able to get a nice smooth finish after that.

Laquer thinner is volitile and stinks (not as bad a amonia!) but is my favorite degreaser for browning and TIG welding. It always works and dries without a film. It's cheap too.

Mark Horvat · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2012, 04:00:53 AM »

I degrease with the purple degreaser I get from the local Napa auto parts. Does not stink like lacquer thinner and is not volatile. Do not have problems with parts browning, but then I also use a browning box.

Mark Horvat

Dave Faletti · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2012, 05:00:49 AM »

Don't see the point of using a poor technique at the end to save a few minutes. I couldn't get the finish I want on either the wood or metal that way.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2012, 05:51:27 PM »

I use Homer Dangler's Browning/rust bluing solution.... on parts that are dismounted from the gum....Interestingly, by accident.... I found that liquid antiseptic handsoap and hot water does a great job of degreasing parts... the barrels I have done this way have been perfectly covered. TGs etc as well.

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2012, 06:00:59 PM »

Quote from: Dave Faletti on January 25, 2012, 05:00:49 AM

Don't see the point of usin"

"Save" a few minutes!! ::)Jeez, you've never seen me at 'work'

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2012, 11:54:52 PM »

I use Laurel Mountain Forge barrel browning and degreaser and I have never degreased a barrel before browning it with this browning solution. I just use a clean rag soaked in alcohol to wipe the crud off the barrel.

Even though I have never tried it I have been tempted to finish the wood first then brown the metal using Laurel Mountain Forge, I believe you could do it on a fairly plain rifle, especially one that you were going to "slightly" age. Now before someone screams "idiot" I am not talking about a rifle with carving/engraving etc. Just a mountain rifle or some other type of working gun.
Dennis

Dave Faletti · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2012, 01:34:28 AM »

Dennis now I'm puzzled.

Not sure of the your process. I have to have the gun taken apart to do the wood and metal finish the way I want. Finish buildup on the wood in places causes trouble with the fit if I am not careful enough. Those parts I have been tempted to brown and then install before the wood finish is done. Kind of a trade off between sealing the wood and fit. Sounds like I may be browning more surfaces than some people not that it matters.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2012, 01:58:02 AM »

The key word is Tempted to try it, I have never tried browning the hardware on a finished rifle. I absolutely hate pulling all the fitted hardware off to brown it. It never goes back as well as it should after finishing the rifle.

However I never degrease when using Laurel Mountain Forge and never had problems using it like the instructions call for.
Dennis

FALout · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2012, 01:49:16 PM »

I've never considered finishing the rifle with the parts on the stock. But in all likelyhood, if you tried it, you would end up with one messed up stock. The wood will turn a nasty looking color around the metal from the carding and application of browning regent. The only trouble I can see is on steel furniture rifle like I'm working on, that needs the nose cap browned that is already pinned in place. I'll see how that goes when I get to that point. At least with that, I can mask off wood at that area with no problem, but for other areas...better off pulling off the parts.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2012, 11:27:42 PM »

Quote

I've never considered finishing the rifle with the parts on the stock. But in all likelyhood, if you tried it, you would end up with one messed up stock. The wood will turn a nasty looking color around the metal from the carding and application of browning regent. The only trouble I can see is on steel furniture rifle like I'm working on, that needs the nose cap browned that is already pinned in place. I'll see how that goes when I get to that point. At least with that, I can mask off wood at that area with no problem, but for other areas...better off pulling off the parts.

I am not saying it would work but I wonder if you could finish the wood with all the metal parts in place. If the wood has a good tough finish you should be able to use 0000 steel wool to card the rust off without having the rust/crud penetrate into the wood. Of course you would have to remove the lock and take it apart to brown it.

Wish someone would try it since I don't have the guts to

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2012, 04:48:32 AM »

I can't imagine browning on the gun....I need to scrub with baking soda and rinse really well with water, dry and then oil my browned parts...... After sealing the gun I do assemble all the furniture ..except the lock and apply oil varnish finish by rubbing it with my fingers..metal and all..I wipe off any excess on the metal.... then wax.

Hawken62_flint · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2012, 04:41:57 PM »

Like Dennis and some others, I use LMF barrel brown and have for almost 30 years. I have yet to find a barrel or other piece of steel furniture that it didn't brown and brown very nicely. I usually wipe everything down with alcohol, but it is not necessary with the LMF product. I got a rifle to brown that had been built by a custom builder and the brown was near non-existent on the rifle. The owner said that the builder could not get the metal to take the brown. I sanded off the little bit of brown that was on the barrel and parts and used the LMF brown on them. When the owner saw the rifle when I was finished, he was amazed and made a decision on the spot not to sell it, as he had been contemplating getting rid of it. Not sure what the original builder tried to use to brown it, but it didn't work. LMF is king in my estimation. Oh, yes, I always remove everything from the rifle to brown.

Don Getz · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2012, 05:09:31 PM »

When I brown a barrel and other parts, I will scrub them with fantastic and a piece of scotch brite. Wear rubber gloves
and scrub the bejesus out of it, then rinse the barrel with real hot water. If I were doing this in the middle of summer,
when humidity is high, the barrel will start to change color even before I can apply the browning solution. I do have a
good damp box for use right now, with all the low humidity, works great. For Roger........takes the parts off the stock,
you can't do it any other way. I think, on my next gun, I will brown the parts and them put the gun together, except for
the lock, and possibly the trigger. These two parts are too difficult to work around when you are applying finish to the
stock............Don

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2012, 06:52:35 PM »

You will love it Don.... I leave the lock out because it is a part I expect to be frequently removed for cleaning and lub..well not too frequently.... haven't had any problem with the triggers... I apply the finish with my fingertips.

blunderbuss · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2012, 03:39:27 AM »

Don't do anything to it go shoot it and rub some of the fowling from your patches on it ,just don't let the rust cake ,it may take awhile but you'll get a beautiful brown

curly · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:27:12 AM »

The best degreaser I've found so far is carburetor cleaner. Better than 91% isopropyl alcohol, lacquer thinner, which by the way does leave a film behind, or actone.

Curly

Daryl · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:13:50 AM »

Roger- just leave her (yer rifle gun) out in the rain for a few days. It'll colour up some all natural like.

Gene Carrell · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:39:26 AM »

Just take the rifle to Friendship in June. I guarantee it will brown over the week of shooting.

Model19 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2012, 03:49:05 PM »

Hey, how noxious is the LMF browning solution? I'm hoping it's not too stinky so I can brown stuff in my basement where I have a big old sink. But I must keep the Misses happy and not stink up the house.

Daryl · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:21:04 PM »

LMF does't stink at all - the basement is the place to brown, if it's moist enough. I had to sit the barrel next to a tray of water, heating the water daily to a boil with a torch to get the browing to work. It is normaly just too dry her during the winter. I should have used Taylor's browing box. The job was poorly done - as-is normal for me.

kutter · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:40:47 PM »

I use LMF soln and have for many years. I still do a de-grease with a spray cleaner like '409' or something similar and a good scrubbing with a brush and M16 maint. brush.
Most of my stuff is older SxS cartridge barrels. Getting the soln to rust isn't a problem,,but any oil that drains out or off the finish when pulled from the tank (rust blue) is,, and will cause streaks in the finish.

Though LMF works it's best at high humidity and temps as in the summer time,,I use it all winter long w/o the use of a damp box. Just coat and hang the bbls and it may take 24 to 36 hrs for a fine coat to form.
I'm working in house where I keep the themostadt at 63F at all times during the winter,,don't know what the humidity is.
So it can work. Does a nice fine grain rust that way too.
If you want to boost the process in winter/cold weather w/o a damp box set up,,just hang the parts from the bathroom shower rod after you're all done cleaning up. Close the door and the parts will be rusted in about 1 to 2 hrs.
Check w/the Mrs to make sure it's OK to hang gun parts in the bathroom.

IIRC LMF is mostly Ferric Chloride w/ a bit of copper sulfate in it. No acid.
Ferric Chloride is a common etching agent and I use it in a separate 5% soln to etch damascus bbls after rusting to bring out the pattern.
It's also good for a first quick dipping to etch hard to rust steels. Gives them an over all uniform grey appearance and a good footing for the rust solution to take better. Great for case hardened parts that normally wear off their bluing quickly.

Michigan Flinter · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:58:01 AM »

I put on new cotton gloves and bead blast my metal parts, take an air gun and blow all the dust, ect. from the parts and apply my browning agent. Works for me.

Curt J · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:46:32 PM »

Straight acetone is my degreaser of choice. It is a solvent for just about anything.

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Author Topic: Cold Brown (Read 9459 times)

mattdog

Mark Horvat

Dave Faletti

Dave Faletti

blunderbuss

Daryl

Daryl