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Author Topic: T Ketland Fowler  (Read 6503 times)

Offline Shreckmeister

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T Ketland Fowler
« on: February 09, 2012, 07:54:38 PM »
      What can you guys tell me about this piece.  Hoping for some good detail.  Joe P puts this in
the 1801-1805 range based on it's proofs.  Is the condition of this as good as I think or are better
examples out there.  It looks just like the trade rifles that had the serpentine sideplate, but this
one doesn't and I can't find any other examples.  It is smooth bore.  The nose has no cap.  Ramrod
is original with patch puller intact.







« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 11:29:34 PM by Rob Watt (suzkat) »
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greybeard

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Re: T Ketland trade gun
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 08:17:15 PM »
I would not say that you have a trade gun.  It is a fowler. Heavy English influence. Could be New England. ???
Bob Reader
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: T Ketland trade gun
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 08:39:19 PM »
Looks like a fowling piece to me...........
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realtorone

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Re: T Ketland trade gun
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 10:14:03 PM »
Rob
send me your email address.I think I have one with the same furniture.I'll have to get it out,but will send pictures if it's the same
George
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Offline Feltwad

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 10:47:48 AM »
From the images I would say that this is not a true Ketland trade gun but a gun built from parts .
Feltwad
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 05:52:17 PM »
I'm curious why you think that.  The barrel marks are Birmingham private ordinance proofs.
The barrel, trigger guard, buttplate, ramrod inlet pipe and stock architecture look just like them.  
I have found another example with this same sideplate.    Which parts don't
look like they go together?

Quote from: Feltwad on February 10, 2012, 10:47:48 AM
From the images I would say that this is not a true Ketland trade gun but a gun built from parts .
Feltwad
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 06:04:44 PM by Rob Watt (suzkat) »
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Feltwad

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 09:58:29 PM »
You quoted 1801-5 proof marks  if these are correct then the trigger guard would have been pineapple finial ,the one on the gun has a acanthus finial which is from the 1750-60 period , the trigger is more of the 1800 period but the ramrod pipe is also much earlier and would have been steel and not brass . The side plate is also from the 1750-60 period and is more for a Fowler if a trade gun it would have been a flat serpentine  also the buttplate with a broad tang , the 1800 period had a narrow tang Finally the barrel if 1800 would have had a hooked breech for a Fowler the method of the proof marks suggest to me an import of foreign iron barrel with maybe a Ketland proof mark.
If the 1800-05 proof marks are correct then you have a gun built from early parts .If the proof marks are wrong then I would say the gun is more to the 1750-60 period I would personally favour the latter, I maybe wrong but from the images that is my opinion of the gun
Feltwad
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 10:10:48 PM »
Feltwad,  Great information and much appreciated.  When I first looked at the gun the man said
he understood it was from the 1760 era.  I should have posted these proofs with the other pictures.
The barrel is block stamped london.  Do these proofs tell you anything further?
 
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Feltwad

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 10:36:56 PM »
The proof marks are those of Ketlands private proof marks of 1770-80,he also had another proof marks at the same period similar the only difference was a slight alteration in the crown.
Feltwad
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 10:58:04 PM »
Quote from: Feltwad on February 10, 2012, 09:58:29 PM
You quoted 1801-5 proof marks  if these are correct then the trigger guard would have been pineapple finial ,the one on the gun has a acanthus finial which is from the 1750-60 period , the trigger is more of the 1800 period but the ramrod pipe is also much earlier and would have been steel and not brass . The side plate is also from the 1750-60 period and is more for a Fowler if a trade gun it would have been a flat serpentine  also thepbuttplate with a broad tang , the 1800 period had a narrow tang Finally the barrel if 1800 would have had a hooked breech for a Fowler the method of the proof marks suggest to me an import of foreign iron barrel with maybe a Ketland proof mark.
If the 1800-05 proof marks are correct then you have a gun built from early parts .If the proof marks are wrong then I would say the gun is more to the 1750-60 period I would personally favour the latter, I maybe wrong but from the images that is my opinion of the gun
Feltwad

While I agree that the hardware is of the 1760's frame for a gun made for an Englishman, it was common practice to continue to produce or use new old stock antiquated hardware on cheap export guns. The low end trade guide hardware design and gun construction techniques are a good example of this.
The stock style is also later in my opinion and exhibits stocking characteristics similar to other Ketland marked guns of a later period.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 11:04:04 PM by James Rogers »
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: T Ketland Fowler
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 11:08:36 PM »
The proofs in my opinion are London ordnance private proofs from the tower or a fakery of same.
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