platinum-touch holes and gold-lined priming pans

[The other DWS]

Maybe this should go in the antique gun section, but here goes
I know that some of the real high end originals had such.  What was the approximate era?  Did American builder use them or was that a Euro-thing? 
  I'm assuming that in part it was ornamentation, but also maybe so corrosion proofing.  I can see sense in platinum in the touchhole liner--I think. Gold does not rust of course but since it is so soft would not it gas-cut in the pan?   or were these for seldom-used arms anyway?

I tend to associate it with the later roller-frizzen/"rain-proof" pans; would the base of the frizzen where it was closely fitted to the "rainproof" pan also be gold-plated/inlaid?

[smylee grouch]

Of the two gold plated pan rifles that I have seen, none were plated on the underside of the frizzen. I have myself plated the pan on one of my flintlock rifles with silver(tinned with silver solder) but it seemed to erode fairly quick. I thought I would try to give it a little class by using silver but it didnt last long.   Smylee

[smart dog]

Hi,
Gold lined pans were not plated.  The lining was thick and actually dovetailed into the pan. Gold was used to line the touch hole because it did not corrode readily.  Platinum, called "platina" at the time, was introduced during the early 19th century.  It was much more resistant to corrosion and the force of explosion than gold.  The best guns had platina touch holes.  Joe Manton tried to take credit for introducing platinum touch hole liners.

dave

[The other DWS]

Now I'm wondering about how a gold touch hole liner would be emplaced,  maybe cast in a threaded hole and then drilled out?  Maybe a harder gold alloy was used rather than dead soft pure gold?  Seems like soft gold would erode out pretty fast.

A piece of hard gold inlayed/cast into a mortise in the lock forging and then hollowed out for the pan makes more sense than any sort of plating.  Has anyone ever seen photos of one of these high end locks from the back side?

I'm assuming this was pretty rare in any case and probably seldom if ever showed up on a US-built arm.

[Dphariss]

Pans were often cut from different directions with a graver to raise a tooth then gold sheet was driven onto the teeth to lock it in place. Just like in making gold inlays. But care must be taken to assure the "teeth" are not exposed in the process.
Gold vent liners were, if I am proplerly informed, peaned into an iron liner with a large hole that was counter sunk on both sides or perhaps like the drawing on the left.



This is why, I think, even double guns had threaded holes into the opposite side of the breech. But I can't find any writing  from the past that describes the installation of vents. So there is supposition on my part.


Gold was used for vents in high grade guns in England/Europe until a process was developed to make Platinum malleable then Platinum was common.

I suppose that some grades of gold may be hard enough to thread and screw in.
Someone here has to know more than I do on the Gold vent liner topic.

Dan

[smylee grouch]

Frank House demonstrates how he makes a gold vent liner in one of his gun building vidieos. American Pioner Vidieo.      Smylee

[Chris Treichel]

Dan... you mean something like a Henry Nock patent breech?

[Dphariss]

Dan... you mean something like a Henry Nock patent breech?

There are lots of Gold and Platinum liners out there. I doubt they are all in Nock breeches. He was not the only one who had a breech design.
For example I have read that Nock breeches were seldom if ever used in rifles.

Dan

[Bob Roller]

I don't remember ever seeing an American rifle or shotgun with a gold lined pan BUT that doesn't mean there aren't any. Most of these flintlock guns with gold or platina liners or touch holes are very "low mileage" and in the main,probably status symbols or items of prestige.
We live about 10 minutes away from Kentucky and if I were to advise Daniel Boone today,I would suggest an AK47 when all the recent drug and thug arrests are factored in.
On the lesser side of levity,our Art Museum's gun collection has a rifle that looks to be of European origin that has been authenticated
by the donor of the collection,Herman Dean as being one of Boone's guns. This is as near to a new and unfired rifle of this time frame as can be found.The barrel is tapered and flared and is 51 inches long in 45 caliber, Stock appears to be a European walnut and he lock is very close to the L&R Durs Egg. I have had this out of the case for examination several years ago and it handles really well in spite of its length. It is my understanding that Boone's surviving clothing indicates a short man of maybe 5'2". The curator,Mrs.Culligan is 5'3"and she has to look up to see the front sight when the rifle is held vertical beside her. I may request another better look at this if my privilege is still in force.

Bob Roller

[flintriflesmith]

I believe that one of the antique longrifles on exhibit at the CLA show had a gold lined pan. It was a 19th century rifle that had recently turned up in the New Orleans. It was related to the rifle owned by William Whitley.

Several years ago there was an 18th century double fowler from a maker in Charleston SC area but some questioned whether it was made there or an imported gun that was marked by him as the retailer.

Mark Silver made this fowler with a gold touch hole and pan liner.
http://msilverartisan.com/gallerypages/Fowler/index.htm

Gary

[bgf]

I believe that one of the antique longrifles on exhibit at the CLA show had a gold lined pan. It was a 19th century rifle that had recently turned up in the New Orleans. It was related to the rifle owned by William Whitley.
...
Gary

I think you might be right. although I wouldn't swear the pan is lined (and cannot find a picture; it might not have lasted anyway).  At least I'm sure the barrel breech is "plated"(? -- probably gold sheet) with gold, plus a gold front sight, etc..  Built by Jacob Young.  His locks on that rifle and the Woodfork rifle (which is almost identical in architecture) look to be relatively current with London fashion, probably that was demanded by the more affluent clientele (assuming planters and other wealthy landowners).  The Woodfork rifle also has the gold plating on the breech, although it is not as elaborate in general as the more recently discovered one.