Side opening patchboxes--attachment

[Curt Larsen]

Just looking for a tip.  What is the best way to get at screws for attaching a side opening patchbox.  The space is really tight and hard to get a straight shot with a screw driver.  I hate to angle them in.

Curt

[The other DWS]

there are a number of tools that use a small ratchet or socket that can be used with a screwdriver bit.  I have seen them at the Auto-zombie type stores and the usual big-box DIY home improvement stores.
  A simple ratcheting-type box end will often work with a screwdriver bit in real tight quarters but you might need to use a flat blade behind the tip for leverage--just using the wrench to rotate it

[Pete G.]

The cavity is not cut square like the front opening box. A slight angle on the lower sidewall usually gives enough of an angle to run the screws in square to the hinge. The wider the box the less the angle can be.

[flehto]

To get the holes for the screws, I burn them in. A length of round stock of suitable dia. is held in a narrow jawed vise grips, heated red hot and pushed into the wood a few times.  It's best to be slightly undersize w/ the steel round stock because ir burns a little oversize. For isntalling the screws, a set of modified Allen wrenches   w/  ground screwdriver tips at various angles are used. Usually 4 tips are req'd. Have attached  many BC Pboxes as described and the cavities  were all verical sided.....Fred

[Curt Larsen]

Thanks,  I'll give these a try.

[rsells]

I do like Pete suggested.  I make a slight angle on the wall where the hinge will be screwed in place and use a small screw driver to install the screws.
                                                                  Roger Sells

[cmac]

Is the box already made? If it was make in two pieces couldn't you attach the hinged part under the surrounding metal (0r is there no surround?)Wasn't sure if you have a "stand alone" lid or what...

[Curt Larsen]

Yep, the box is a ready made simple oval hinged lid.  It is TVM's PB-35.  It will give a large enough cavity so that if I angle the wall that receives the hinge I should be able to do it as Pete suggests.  Wish me luck.

[smylee grouch]

Curt, I have done three of them and what others have said, on an angle( 45) or so works. This still wont take up that much room in the cavity and makes instilation alot more simple.   Smylee

[Lucky R A]

    Keep in mind that the ready made Bucks Co. patchbox products are way oversized and need to be reshaped to the particular Bucks Co. maker you are copying.  Once the lid is sized, inlet the hinge section, (it is also oversized as well,) to full depth with about half the hinge barrrel extending above the wood.  Then start inletting the lid by rolling it towards the closed position.  You can work your way around the curvature of the stock w/o gaps and end up with the straight line of the top to finish the lid inlet.
     Remember to use the correct opener which is a push rod concealed under the front of the toe plate.  Opener buttons extending through the butt plate or toe plate are a sure sign that the builder did not study the school fully.

[Acer Saccharum]

I saw a recent Buck County gun where the hinge is laid on the outside face of the stock. The screws go straight into the wood. No problem.

Of course, you gotta like the crude look. The rest of the gun has to match.

[Curt Larsen]

Come on Tom.  I once posted about turning a sow's ear (a Hatfield) into a silk purse, but I think I'll pass on the external hinge.  Oh by the way, the redo of a Hatfield with new lock and proper hardware did come out pretty good, even though pretty good isn't what I like.
Curt

[flehto]

Not to belabor a point, but have many pics of BC cavities and none have angled sides for mounting the hinge plate.  Wonder how "they" did it?....Fred

[b bogart]

Fred I thought I heard somewhere that some were "nailed" on the stock. My guess would be they drilled attachment holes in the hinge tab, positioned them, burned in pilot holes, put some barbs on a few tacks, lined them up and maybe used a clamp to slowly force the barbed tacks into the pilot holes? Speculation on my part mind you. I'd say educated guess but I'm not that educated.....

[PIKELAKE]

This is an interesting thread in that I have been sitting on a side opening patch box for over 20 years. Never could figure out how to attach it. Well, I am in the process of using it now and I'll figure it out now thanks to this thread. What I need ( if possible) is for someone to post a picture or two of said patch box open. I would like to see the relationship between the latch (toe plate latch) and the lift spring. It seems to me that if they are on opposite ends of the lid it might be difficult for the lid to lay flat against the box mortise without a lot of playin around with the balance of the opposing springs. I hope this makes at least a little sense.  Placement of the lift spring is what I really need to know. Maybe that helps. thanks to all,     JZ

[JDK]

JZ,  I just did a search by "side opening patchbox" and came up with a bunch of post....some with pictures and some without.  Give it a shot, there are some very good pictures.  You will find that some had springs and some did not.  I guess it might depend on what type you have, cast vs. sheet brass, etc.  J.D.K.

[PIKELAKE]

JDK, thanks for the reminder that there is an archives feature. I found  enough info to get me going again. I better call a time out. Thanks again....JZ

[QuanLoi]

Here is the spring position for a rifle I made a while ago... I really didn't have a point of reference, it just made sense to me to put it there...





The push rod is a nail that originates from the toe plate.. I didn't do too good a job shaping the "screw head" button but at that point in the build I was impatient to finish the construction of the gun.



(Full disclosure: engraving by Mike Lea)

Decker

[PIKELAKE]

Quanloi, thanks for the pictures. It is much clearer now. I had some foggy cloud about me....JZ

[Lucky R A]

Pikelake,   Most originals that I have examined do not have a lift spring.  In those the front of the box (curved end) is slightly bent down.  When closed the inlet forces the box lid to sit level with the stock surface.  The front being bent creates enough tension to pop the door open by a 1/2-3/4 inch when the release is pushed.   If you desire a more conventional style lift spring it is placed on the middle hinge attachment screw and applies pressure to the middle of the box at the hinge.  Try the traditional approach first and if you do not like it, there is no problem to put a spring on the hinge as described. 

Best wishes   Ron

[PIKELAKE]

Ron, your observation that lift springs were seldom used is interesting. When I get down to the nitty gritty of this I will try the bend treatment. Sounds easy enough and if that does not cut it, I can always add a spring. I,m rehearsing the attachment of the hinge to the box mortise at the present on scrap wood. The Buck's County boys must have had a trick. Thanks again, JZ

[t.caster]

Here is an original BC pb shown using nails, not screws...and no spring. The release mech. was removed because the toe of the stock was broken off, and the wood replaced without a toe plate.


I have one in the works right now that is done this way.

Here is a Verner pb & hinge I built prior to having above knowledge. I used screws and a spring, oh and the release rod is in the top of the butt pl.

[b bogart]

Notice in Mr Casters picture of the original patchbox that nails hold the cover on the stock. My memory isn't as bad as I thought! Thanks for the pictures, they show me alot!

[PIKELAKE]

Tom C, thanks for the pics. Nails eh? It seems that screws would have been a bit easier. I wonder how they drove them in to stay? I could see me makin a big mess with nails. It is likely they predrilled as to not split the wood. What do I know? Thanks again......JZ

[t.caster]

You won't catch me using nails in this application. Even the screws loosen somewhat with use.