Author Topic: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"  (Read 4347 times)

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« on: November 30, 2008, 08:46:54 PM »
In many of my personal evaluations of guns to acquire, debate often centers around the issue of "restocked." ( Restocked, then whether it is period of use or relatively new). With due regard to the recent excellent article by Wallace Gusler in Muzzleblasts ( a I recall), I am curious to know what features are used by this membership to try to make that determination, particularly those that would be considered  "telltale" such as removing the butt plate or lock and evaluating the patina of the wood that then becomes visible. Another feature of a gun that I had was that the toeplate ended at a cut through a screw hole ( original but incomplete piece of furniture).

Offline flintriflesmith

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Re: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 04:55:25 AM »
I think this subject could be a major article and when I get a week with nothing else to do I may write it! ;)

Meanwhile here is a list of some things to look for:

Double pin holes where guard and ramrod pipes were redrilled on new stock. (The absence of double holes does not prove the rifle is not a restock because some times they hit the old hole perfectly.)

Lower butt moulding filed through the butt piece but no corresponding moulding on the stock. Both Kindig and Shumway tended to ignore this obvious clue -- perhaps, in George's case, to avoid conflict with the owner.

Interupted engraving along the butt piece edge of the patchbox. Often a restocking involved bending the butt piece to a greater curve to be more "up-to-date" but even if it wasn't bent getting the already engraved box to match up perfectly was not easy. They often just let it hang over a bit and trimmed it off.

Also on the butt piece--to make the rifle more up-to-date the butt pieces were sometimes made narrower. This often results in a buttpiece that is thicker than normal along the finished edge. (You need to develop you eye for spotting this because many re-pros are too thick as well and you may not have noticed.)

Stock design that doesn't fit the regional style or period of the mounts, barrel, & lock.

Single screw lock with a two screw side plate or vice-versa.

Barrel set back (shortened) at the breech but there is no evidence in the stock of earlier loop or pin placement. Like wise a barrel slashed for a front lock bolt with no corresponding evidence in the wood.

Like I said this could be a long article or a long seminar!

Gary



"If you accept your thoughts as facts, then you will no longer be looking for new information, because you assume that you have all the answers."
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Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 03:07:58 PM »
Would the definition of a "Restock" constitute a newly constructed rifle built with a couple of used parts....such as a barrel and a trigger guard??
Joel Hall

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 03:56:26 PM »
It would seem to me that a restock would generally refer to a non-original stock using the barrel (signed ?)and key hardware (patchbox and other original furniture). It seems less important a question unless the rifle can be attributed in some way.
Hurricane

Offline Dave B

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Re: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 06:45:00 AM »
A clasic example of a restock is the silver mounted JP Beck Pistol. the parts were assembled into what we see today as one of the greats. I was under the impression years ago that it was all original till some one pointed out the only the hardware was original. Who ever stocked it did a bang up job of it. The use of old parts to make a new functional piece has been going on since the beginning of firearms. Once you use you gun as a club its time to get a new stock made. Maybe thats why ole Dannel got some experince with gun stocking.
 I have a nice long rifle that shows signs that the barrel had been longer at one time but the existing stock is not showing any signs that is was shortende at any point.  The old staples were pulled out and new ones set in and the barrel inlet into the new stock. It was done a very long time ago I believe in the 1800's but there were smiths still making some of these rifles at the turn of the century. It is either that or the aprentice put the staples in at the wrong spacing and had to pull them and redo the job. I do see some marks to indicate that there was a pattern punch used to lay out the area for the staple before the chisel was used to gouge up the metal for the staple.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline LynnC

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Re: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 07:24:51 AM »
Regarding the Beck pistol - I think it's one of a pair owned by two different people.  I want to say the restock is by Carl Pippert but could be mistaken.  The other original is pictured in S. Dyke's book on American flintlock pistols.  They look pretty close.
Just some thoughts....................Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

jwh1947

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Re: Key points on "How to determine if a gun is a restock ?"
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 08:31:39 AM »
Lynn, I don't know if it is the counterpart to the one you have described, but a Beck pistol walked away from the local historical society about 30 years ago.  They have pictures of their old gun and have a flicker of hope that it may turn up some day.  Nobody is holding their breath.  JWHeckert