QUESTION FOR YOU AVID HUNTERS

[walt53]

What would be a good  cal size to shoot from small game up to coyotes
or wolves.Iwas at a FISH AN WILDLIFE meeting last night and they are encoureging everyone to go hard on the dog's.We could even have an ELK
season hear in the near future.And as usual the black bears are a problem
hear to .  They are afraid if the elk cross the NORTH SASKATCHEWAN RIVER
they will cause some damage to the local farmer'swho are all ready not careing for the idea of having an elk population in the area. WALT

[bob in the woods]

We have coyotes here, and I hunt them when I can. I have a .40 and have taken it out when after them because I hunt rabbits at the same time. However, -  we also have been getting a few wolves, and after seeing the size of them  , , I feel better with my .54   I'd shoot a 40 at a coyote anyday, but these timber wolves are huge !   Also, consider what range you are likely to be shooting.  A .40 at 100yds is not packing the punch that it does at 50 yds,  [ 50 yds being the max. distance I'd shoot a deer with it.]
  You'll have to evaluate what your usage is likely to be, and then decide. A .40 might be great, but then again, a .45 or maybe even a .50 might be better.   

[Bob Roller]

For critters like coyotes and wolves,I would want at LEAST a 50 caliber or better yet,a 54 or 58. A big six shooter like an 1858 Remington with the heaviest load the cylinder will accept and still allow a ball to be seated is in order as well.

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

I suggest a .45 and use a slippery lube with about 75gr. 3F. that will flatten trajectory and give you a point blank range of about 120yards.  It will be much more effective on wolves than a smaller calibre. It's rare to have an opportunity to have a crack at one during the daytime, so make it work.  Our wolves - the Timber wolves, are not the slightly oversized dogs normally indigenous to Montana and Wyoming.  Those, are probably extinct now, due to the introduction of the BC/Alaskan Wolves- which usually do not mix with other canines, they eat them.  A hybrid does happen time to time, though, which reduces their size.

Our wolves are a decent size and larger than most of the Eastern Whitetails I see pictured on many sites. Yes - there are large whitetails, just as there are wolves that are larger than others and the big ones will run over 200pounds just as the deer will. The average seems to be only around 130 to 140pounds.
 
THIS is a real wolf that out friends in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Wash,. and Oregon now are having troubles with, all from 50 breeding pairs introduced into Yellowstone Park some 10 to 15 years ago. They are BAD and spreading throughout the Western States.

I would not trust a .40 on a 100yard shot on a wolf such as this. A .50 would not seem too large for these animals.

[bob in the woods]

yes....that's what I'm talking about. !!!!   I did a double take the first time I saw one.  Huge ! 

[fdf]

What would be a good  cal size to shoot from small game up to coyotes
or wolves.Iwas at a FISH AN WILDLIFE meeting last night and they are encoureging everyone to go hard on the dog's.We could even have an ELK
season hear in the near future.And as usual the black bears are a problem
hear to .  They are afraid if the elk cross the NORTH SASKATCHEWAN RIVER
they will cause some damage to the local farmer'swho are all ready not careing for the idea of having an elk population in the area. WALT
 
 
 
You asked about small game to coyotes to wolves which encompasses from a pound to around 100 pounds plus or so of animal size, at the upper limit of your question a 40 is not even in the discussion is it???

Coytes and above in weight, go 50 and above

[ERH]

go big and head shoot the small stuff .  40 or 45 cal are good calibers but i don't think i would want to shoot a wolf with any thing that small. i think i would use 54 or larger for them. loaded hot!!!!!!!!!!

[Martin_G]

WOW.....now that a Wolf!

[Dew]

You boys have some serious critters running around up there!  Just curious If wolfs have ever been known to attack humans?

[Dphariss]

Dad caught something in the realm of 200-250 wolves in South Central East interior AK. The biggest weighed 135 pounds IIRC. I know it was less than 150.
Its like internet AK brown bears. They grow after they die.

Dan

[Dphariss]

What would be a good  cal size to shoot from small game up to coyotes
or wolves.Iwas at a FISH AN WILDLIFE meeting last night and they are encoureging everyone to go hard on the dog's.We could even have an ELK
season hear in the near future.And as usual the black bears are a problem
hear to .  They are afraid if the elk cross the NORTH SASKATCHEWAN RIVER
they will cause some damage to the local farmer'swho are all ready not careing for the idea of having an elk population in the area. WALT

Wolves are not Coyotes. Even Coyotes can carry a lot of lead off if its not pretty HV and frangible.
40 Cal is OK for Coyotes to 50 yards and will kill wolves dead much farther than that. But unless you have snow they may be hard to find.

Dan

[walt53]

DARLY   I recently saw a picture of a guy holding a cougar that was shot just north of hear near CONKLIN AB. That cat looked to be as big as that wolf in your picture.And a wolf as big as the one you show,shot in the same area as the big cat.At the fish an wildlife meeting the other night they said they had a new permit to hunt cougar which was very afordabule,
but you can't use DOGS. Good luck with that idea,no dogs no cats.I
SERIOUSLYwonder if our fish an wildlife will ever get their act together.JUST LIKE OUR FISHING REGULATIONS but thats another story in it's self.
Maybe we could bait them an use some GOVERMENT OFFICALS as the bait ,
sorta kill 2 birds with one stone??
  WALT

[FRJ]

You have to use a gun that is capable of humane kills on the largest critter you are likely to shoot. In your case thats the wolf. The ones that are being used to repopulate the lower 48 are MUCH bigger than the original wolves that were wiped out in their territory. So I wouldn't want to use anything smaller than a 54 since I can load it down for plinking and small game but I can also run loads that will definately ruin a wolves day in a very profound manner. If  thats not enough there is nothing wrong with a 58!!! FjRJ

[Daryl]

Oh well, the place to address the F&W branches is at town and city meetings, not here, of course.

That was a very large, outsized cat, Walt. We can and do use dogs for cougar here.

Not positive about the wolf sizes.  They can seem heavier than they actually are.  One fall, we got a large male and all 4 pups of a 'family' pack. We didn't get the female, although she was the main target, was never with the others.  This happened when I was guiding moose hunters back in '78.  My .458 worked just fine.  It took both Igor and I to lift the male into the canoe - he was very heavy - it was a grunt and 1/2.  I was very strong back then & so was Igor. We both figured him to be close to 200, maybe over, but of course, it's all subjective guessing.  It would have been easier to throw a 200 pound man into the canoe- that, we figured.  The pups were around 55 to 60 pounds, just guessing - about like a normal slightly fat young lab.  Every where we went, we were walking on wolf scat.  They are game decimators.
"The Game Branch" in Wyoming, I think it was, placed their weight about 135 to 145- average female and male, I'd assume but did not retain that information.

A school teacher was pulled down, killed and partically eaten by 2 or 3 wolves just outside her town, in Alaska.  It happened last early spring, I think it was. She was a runner -  and ran by herself once too many times.

So, yes - they will attack humans.

[hanshi]

I can't help but but vote for the .45 for anything under 200 pounds.

[walt53]

Where we camp in the summer months I often see wolves,mostly by themselves.I would guess them to wiegh around the 135lb mark.And I also see quite a few coyotes and a few red fox.And recently the odd cougar.
I all ready have a 54cal and I'm sorta wanting one on the lower end
around 40 or 45 cal.Trouble is I can't make up my mind as till know i've only dealt with TC'S 50cals in 1/48 twist.My 54 cal has realy opened my eyes  to what a round ball twist well do.I still work so there are times i don't get to shoot much but still manage to burn up 3 or4 lbs of powder a season an was thinking a small cal be usefull well as economical.AND I'M KINDA GEARING UP for retirement in about 2 or 3 years so i'm sorta trying to do like ROUNDBALL and have all my ducks in row for then.SMALL CAL BIGGER CAL WITH ANY LUCK i would allso like a 54cal smooth bore.So since i'm still in the learning stage of this blackpowder sport, one more thing to add and i should be satisfied,well for know anyway. thanks WALT

[Daryl]

Walt - I have .32, .40, .45, then jump to .58's & larger.

 In effectiveness for our game, the .58's are quite similar to a .54, however the .54 is easier to feed appropriate loads in- ie: easier on the shoulder.  The small bores are fun to shoot and I use them for trail walks (target shooting) and plinking  which is also target shooting.   I also use the double .58 & Musketoon along with the big .69 on the trail, but it is hard on targets.  It is for when the hunting gets really serious.  If I had a .54, it-too would get double use - target and probably hunting. I've had a dry spell as too hunting for a few years, but find myself thinking towards going out this fall again.

We were able to get the button rifled TC's with 48" twists to work as 48" is actually a round ball twist. The main problem for a lot of people is using a tight enough combination to get the shallow rifling to work.  Going to a modern round ball barrel makes finding an accurate load quite easy.

Since you're in Ab. perhaps you'll join us at Heffely Creek Rondy next August for Rendezvous BC 2012. Quite a number of shooters from Alberta come every year - bunch from Fort McMurray too. We'd like to have you joint us.

The main reason for having a .32 through .40 is for the Squirrel Shoot - nothing over .40 allowed. It's quite a lot of fun.

[walt53]

dARLY IF YOU HAD A CHOICE  FOR SHOOTING COYOTES OR SAY THE ODD WOLF OR JUST PAPER WHAT WOULD YOU CHOOSE, A 40 OR 45.Some say the 45 you can use different powder charges which makes it more virsitile.
I do know that what ever cal i would like it to shoot POI to 100 yds.Any comments from anyone with experience in the small cals would be appreciated. thanks WALT
PS one might never get a chance at a wolf you never know.

[hanshi]

I have two Lancasters, one .40 and the other .45.  Both are accurate at 100 yards (considering my dismal marksmanship) but I can often shoot 4" to 6" groups at that distance.  Others could do lots better with my rifles; that's just as well as I can do most days.

[Daryl]

I'm sure eitehr would work, but I'd prefer a .45 for the odd wolf.  Afterall, any modern .224 cal. rifle will also do it well.  A GM barrel with 60" twist will shoot very nicely with 75 to 80gr. of 3f for longer range shooting and give around or over 2,100fps for a nice low trajectory.  It probably won't give paws in the air iinstant kills, but I'd expect one would need a heavily loaded .50 or .54 to get that. On a wolf, I'd be inclined when using a larger calibre rifle to concentrate on breaking bones. Aferall, you're not going to eat it.

[blunderbuss]

  

  I had a friend who used to hunt with a .36 he would hunt small game but if he needed to hunt deer he would double ball it. he claimed it would drop them pretty fast. I have learned recently that Colonial rifle men would double or triple ball their guns when confronting English line troops.

[Daryl]

I really don't like nor recommend double balling, as if the normal thick patch is used, the compressed air between them will prevent the balls from sitting one atop the other, and can cause a catostrophic barrel failure, usually right where you are holding the forend, as the top one becomes an obstruction.  If the top one has a weak, thin patch that let the air escape, it can work, but I'd much prefer to use a larger calibre.

[blunderbuss]

 

 Sure one needs to seat the top ball and make sure it's fast against the bottom one. My friend would seat the top ball and watch the ramrod to make sure it didn't move up after seating it. He had his ramrod marked for one ball and then another mark for the second ball.He never had trouble with it that way. One would need to use caution with that like every thing else we do 

[Mike R]

I suggest a .45 and use a slippery lube with about 75gr. 3F. that will flatten trajectory and give you a point blank range of about 120yards.  It will be much more effective on wolves than a smaller calibre. It's rare to have an opportunity to have a crack at one during the daytime, so make it work.  Our wolves - the Timber wolves, are not the slightly oversized dogs normally indigenous to Montana and Wyoming.  Those, are probably extinct now, due to the introduction of the BC/Alaskan Wolves- which usually do not mix with other canines, they eat them.  A hybrid does happen time to time, though, which reduces their size.

Our wolves are a decent size and larger than most of the Eastern Whitetails I see pictured on many sites. Yes - there are large whitetails, just as there are wolves that are larger than others and the big ones will run over 200pounds just as the deer will. The average seems to be only around 130 to 140pounds.
 
THIS is a real wolf that out friends in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Wash,. and Oregon now are having troubles with, all from 50 breeding pairs introduced into Yellowstone Park some 10 to 15 years ago. They are BAD and spreading throughout the Western States.

I would not trust a .40 on a 100yard shot on a wolf such as this. A .50 would not seem too large for these animals.

This is a faked picture, but that aside...I agree with the .45 suggestion.  But I think the .40 would also do the trick on most coyotes and wolves.  Clearly anything in a higher caliber will also work, but will be overkill on smaller game.

[Daryl]

 

 Sure one needs to seat the top ball and make sure it's fast against the bottom one. My friend would seat the top ball and watch the ramrod to make sure it didn't move up after seating it. He had his ramrod marked for one ball and then another mark for the second ball.He never had trouble with it that way. One would need to use caution with that like every thing else we do 

The fit makes a big difference. If I don't lift the hammer off the spent cap fragment on my .69, the ball will follow the rod back up the bore about 8" after seating it and lifting the rod out and that's just a single ball. The compressed air in the breech is what is doing this.   In my .20 bore, I've double loaded when on the trail and had the ball come backup the bore a good 15" off the first. Shove it down, let go of the rod and it pushed the rod and ball back up a good foot. It has to be pulled to be safe- cannot be fired.

How snug the load is can make a HUGE difference, obviously.