Chunky Chunky

[CowboyCS]

Most of the people who call me are usually looking for an English Stalking Rifle(single or Double), a late period American Rifle or a very Big Bore rifle...so I don't get to build very many Flintlocks. Once in a while though I get a customer who wants a specific flintlock built.

This is a .40 Caliber Chunk Rifle with a few special touches that the customer wanted.

The Barrel is an Ed Rayl, .40 Caliber, 48 inches long, 1.250" Flat to Flat with 1:62 twist. This makes for a very heavy barrel.
Lock is a Chambers Ketland.
Trigger is R.E. Davis.
Rear Sight is stepped chunk sight.
I hand forged the butt plate to match pictures the customer sent me. The Triggerguad I made in three pieces and soldered together, then set copper rivets...this was also made to match a set of pictures he provided. I also made the front sight and the iron forearm cap and Ramrod pipes and entry pipe. I also made the "t" plate on the off side and the wear plate.
The Stock is Sugar Maple stained with Chambers Nut Brown and finished in oil.
The metal is browned with R.E. Davis rust brown and oil finished.
The only engraving is my makers mark and some letter engraving the customer requested on the "t" plate and the rear sight.
Overall length is 63.5 inches and it weighs 21.5 pounds(hence the Chunky Chunky title) the rest of the specs(LOP, DOC, DOH, etc..) were built to his measurements.

I didn't do any precision load work up or file the sights, since this is a chunk rifle the customer will want to do the fine tuning himself for final load work and sight in. But I did run a ten shot string through it just to make sure everything was working fine and get a rough idea of how it was going to shoot.

Enough typing here's the pics:













Enjoy,

Colin

[Don Getz]

Looks like a chunk gun.   I played with a 40 cal., also a 45 cal., but ended up shooting my best targets with a 50 cal. gun
built by Ron Borron, with the cheekpiece built up with layers of leather.   The Borron gun was built with hand forged hardware, Myron Carlson stuff, and had too much drop in the stock.   I built up the cheekpiece with layers of leather and
shot my best targets with it.   My first time at the Alvin York shoot with it I came in 5th.    To many people 5th place would
not mean much, but, I beat about 220 other shooters, and those steaks were goooood................Don

[wattlebuster]

Good job an shooter too

[Don Getz]

I do like the flat butt on this gun.   My 50 had the traditional curved butt like most southern guns, and in laying down to
shoot it was difficult to fit it to my shoulder.   The pointed heel got me on the shoulder many times.........Don

[Michigan Flinter]

Nice looking riflegun is it going to be at Alen Coon's or the York shoot? 

[CowboyCS]

Thanks for the compliments.

The customer wanted the flat buttplate for the same reason...comfort.

I presume it will make it's way to the shoots, the customer has mentioned several shoots he wants to attend, including the York Shoot.

Colin

[Don Getz]

I was looking at the group you shot with the gun.   I would shoot a .395 ball, everything the same.   In an actual chunk
gun match you would be able to clean between shots, which would make a difference.   After I would fire my shot I
would bring the gun back to my loading bench and run a wet patch up and down the barrel and leave it down in the
breach.   After they closed the line and allowed you to go forwrd and put up your next target, I would return to my
loading bench and wait for the line to open again.    After it opened, I would finish cleaning the bore, then re-load and
go and fire the shot.   The reason I did not clean the gun right after I fired it is because you have no way of knowing
how long it will be, time wise, before you will be able to shoot that next shot.   The relays are not timed, they stay open
until everyone has fired their shot.   By cleaning just before you load in the next relay, your barrel is always in the same
condition of wetness/dryness.    Believe it or not, the thing that holds up the time in a given relay is percussion guns.
You will fire your gun, go back and do the wet patch bit, then stand around while some one is popping caps, trying to get
his gun to go off.  That's why it takes two hours to shoot ten shots...............Don

[CowboyCS]

Since it's a competition gun, I only ran it through 10 shots just to make sure everything mechanically performed as it should. I'm sure my customer will work up the best combination and load. He'll also have to finalize the sights.

I've never actually shot Chunk Competition, but I've shot other types of competition and I always swabbed between shots unless it was a timed target like on a two shot station during a woods walk.

Colin

[okieboy]

 Nice heavy gun. Really like all the hand made hardware.
 If this gun's owner wants to go to the York, they don't allow adjustable sights and they do inspect sights before shooting. He might want to call Ron Borron for clarification on this.
 Don's advice on swabbing is great. I'll bet it won't take much work to tighten the group up and cut some centers.

[Don Getz]

I'm with Okieboy on that sight.    I'm not sue if they will allow it.    Actually, there is no need for an adjustable sight.   This
is one sport where you don't want your gun to shoot where you are looking.    If you have your rifle sighted to hit at the
top of your front sight, you will soon have a very ragged sighting point on your sighter target   I can just see some of you scratching your head after that last statement...............Don

[CowboyCS]

It's built to his specs, so as the old saying goes "the customer is always right"...my only exception to that is when they want me to build something that would be unsafe. Otherwise it's their money and they can have the gun they want. The dovetail is a standard size though, so he can drift that sight out and replace it easy enough if it's a problem.

Colin

[huckfinn]

Ain't nothin' wrong with bein' chunky!  (Madagascar movie?)

I really like the trigger guard.  Did you start with mild steel pieces maybe 1/2" wide.  I'd like to make one like that for my Tennessee rifle. 

Very nice!

[Paul Griffith]

That's a sweet looking chunker. It's interesting how the log gun evolved over the past 25 years or so. Some time ago we were all building pieces that resembled Soddy TN guns. They fit 'bout like a hockey stick. Never have figured what the old timers were thinking. What you have there is so much better to crawl into.

Hey, Don Getz, you're kidding about somebody complaining about a lousy 5th place finish, right? That field is getting tougher by the minute & 5th would be a fine place to end up in a month.

[Don Getz]

Hi Paul..........I assume you are still tearing them up.   For you guys on the forum that don't recognize this guys name,
to get things in perspective, I think he has won the Alvin York shoot more than anyone should.   I really do miss the game
but age just won't help me get up anymore, getting down is no problem.   I learned more about shooting during my years
of chunk gun shooting than any other period.   It is so informal and fun,..........Don

[little joe]

  Mr Griffth and Getz  What do you fellows know about the allowed rear sight?

[Don Getz]

I think the rules state that it cannot be adjustable.     However, it would not help to adjust them.   You are in a sense
adjusting your point of impact by where you place your "X" card..........Don

[Paul Griffith]

I thiink the last guy that refered to me as Mr Griffith locked me in a cell with a funnel in the middle of the floor.  Boy that takes me back.

Actually the sight on this rifle is technically not legal. As it is adjustable. That being said it would be overlooked at most of the local matches around the countryside. BUT I doubt that it would be overlooked at the York.  You would have to slide out the stepper or candle wax the adjustment. The problem is that at the York they ended up with egg on there face letting something slide & having the guy turn around & win the match. Things have a tendancy to be overlooked til they show up at the meat table too close to the top.

I think the wording as far as rear sights go is; nonadjustable, notch that's a V, Square or U  shape and the bottom of the notch or any part of the notch can't be wider than the top of the notch. It can be a buck horn sight & I think the rules pertaining to these is the horns have to be a 1/4" apart. These days there's a lot of sights that screw onto the barrel instead of dovetail on. So far this hasn't been questioned. It does have some advantages as you can have a series of hole threaded up the barrel & trombone the sight out a bit as the eyes come & go. (mostly go)

The good news is that, as stated earlier you don't really want these guns to hit point of aim as you cut up your spotter. Personally I like my guns sighted in 5 or 6 inches low. That way the group is hidden behind the sight & you see no part of it as you aim.

Hey Don there's talk of starting up the Walbash Valley style matches that are shot off a bench of sorts at 30 yrds. They shoot this sort of thing out Missouri way yet.  Mostly the ground is getting too far down, probably the same reason it got started back in the day. At any rate it's a fiine place for a 20 pound 36 caliber.

[nugget1750]

Hello gentlemen. I am the proud owner of the hefty chunck gun named "Daddy Beav" that Mr. Stolzer posted the picture of. I will answer a few of your questions about the rifle build.....first, about the rear sight. I saw this sight in Track of The Wolf advertised as a traditional chunck gun sight. My thinking was if I got the gun sighted in then I could remove the sight....silver solder it....put it back on.....set the windage location with a punch therfore rendering the sight as non-adjustable. I have sent pictures to Ron Borron and am waiting his reply.  If I have to change the sights then that will be OK with me.  I will be snooping around at the York checking out the top shooters and asking if I may look at thier sights so I know what to look for. Second....the butt plate...again on the web I found a "hand forged early Tennessee" that looked alot more comfortable than the deep curved ones of later period. So I  asked Mr. Stolzer to reproduce it.  I sent Mr.Stolzer pictures and he did an excellent job granting my request. I have not  recieved the rifle yet but am hoping that next week will be the week. I have witnessed Paul shooting at the York Shoot and Don is correct...Paul is one fine shooter....I only hope I can shoot good enough not to get laughed at! Thanks for all the compliments on the rifle. I named it after my Father. My father "shot strait" with me during all the years he raised me  and I have deep respect for his work ethic and his philosophy of life.  I cannot thank Mr. Stolzer enough for building the exact vision I had for this rifle. Good shooting my friends!

[Paul Griffith]

A couple things to kick around as far as the sights. These days some of the best shootin on the log is being done with a square notch & square top blade. I word it that way because for years the pin head front sight was ruling the roost.

Your target will make or break you. The most used target for that sight is a black square that matches the width of the front sight when aimed at at 60 yds. Something that can be added to the target is a horizontal flouresent orange stripe, say 1/2" below the black & the stripe itself would be 1/2" from top to bottom & about as wide as the black. To use the orange you bring front sight up til the orange disappears & trip off the gun.  Elevation is usually the problem with any set up as far as sighting goes. Enter the wind into things & this all changes of course but the sights will line up left & right pretty reliably.

Something else that enters into this set up is the background color you choose for your target. At the York on a bluebird day you will have the sun pounding on the target. Things happen with a bright background that I can't explain. As the sight approaches the black square with too bright a backgound they sort of melt together. So you have to adjust the target color to the day. Bobby Grimm used this setup for years & shot at a piece of cardboard with black on it. These days grass green backgrounds are everywhere.  Flouresent colors might look good on a cloudy day or where the targets are shaded but get wierd in the sun. Go out & play with setups. Not neccessarily shooting each one but set up a bright background & a duller one & put an eye to it.

With that .40 or any chunker, powder is a good thing. Or as much of it as you can get a one hole group with. If you can take that 40 fast enough you can help beat the wind with the speed. I remember Bevel Senior trimming me at the Bevel Shoot using a 40. Can't remember the powder for sure but it seems like it was 80grs or more.  That & he layed there & shot thru a hang fire & pounded a spider with it. Not your usual hang fire but one of those where we all went into town for a cold one & came back to here the gun finally going off. I still admire his ability to not act suprised seeing that four legger in the scope.

[nugget1750]

Paul, Thank you for your advise and sharing your knowledge. I have been to the York shoot the last two years and am truely humbled by your targets. I will be testing these sight backgrounds you suggested....and putting all the information that you , Don Getz, and Ron Borron have been giving me to good use. I have shot 'off hand' flint matches for 10 - 12 years (cap locks before that)...but this chunk gun shooting is all new and I want to learn all I can and have a lot of fun doing it. Which bring us to the Bevel Senior hang fire...if I am ever at one of these shoots and there is another one of those real long hang fires and you all go to town for a cold one...count me in!
Thanks again and Good Shooting,
Glen

[nugget1750]

I have a couple more quetions for you guys that are into the 'Chunk Gun' shooting....what type of lube do you use on your patching? I have heard of using vegtable cooking oil, light weight hydrualic oil, Crisco, water soluable machine shop oil,...ect...

Also I have been cleaning between shots, with my off-hand rifle ,with a solution I read about in Muzzle Blasts years ago they called '3 Patch Cleaner' (equal parts of Murpheys Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and Peroxide). I clean between shots with this solution...seems ok...what do you guys think?

[Militant_Hillbilly]

I thiink the last guy that refered to me as Mr Griffith locked me in a cell with a funnel in the middle of the floor.  Boy that takes me back.

Actually the sight on this rifle is technically not legal. As it is adjustable. That being said it would be overlooked at most of the local matches around the countryside. BUT I doubt that it would be overlooked at the York.  You would have to slide out the stepper or candle wax the adjustment. The problem is that at the York they ended up with egg on there face letting something slide & having the guy turn around & win the match. Things have a tendancy to be overlooked til they show up at the meat table too close to the top.

Paul, maybe you should write a book on chunk gun lore: The Adventures of Spider-matic. Bobby Grim could be your trusty sidekick.

That or we need the Foxfire people to update vol. 5.

[Don Getz]

Nuggett....... Larry Landis from Lewistown was using that three part cleaner (Murphys Oil soap, alcohol, and Peroxide).
After about a year of use, he had a barrel that was lightly pitted from end to end.     Murphy's Oil and alcohol might be OK,
but, forget the peroxide     ..........Don

[Paul Griffith]

Paul, maybe you should write a book on chunk gun lore: The Adventures of Spider-matic. Bobby Grim could be your trusty sidekick.

Sounds like the return of Roy & Gabby. We better talk Don into this also. The man's a walking encyclopedia of worthless information.

As far as the lube. I just use a little squirt of cheap dish soap in a dishsoap bottle full of water. I'm with Don as far as the peroxide. I'm not much on the Murphys either as. I've seen it cause a waxy buildup in a barrel.

Honestly you already know how to run a gun. This ain't no different. Maybe a bit tighter load. Maybe push the powder a bit more.  But it's just a big fat round ball gun.  You've already met.

[nugget1750]

Paul & Don...  I guess I just want to cover all the bases....I figure if I can pick enough info from the pro's I stand a better chance of improvin' my string...and believe me, it needs alot of improvin'...thanks again, GLen