Chunky Chunky

[dagner]

  Paul was their that day lowell shot threw the long hang fire and still cut a 4 legger.man you could smoke a cigarette in that hang fire time .you getting kind of old and feeble though . lowell and Joel shoot 45 cal   lowell was shooting his 45 that day.next on sights go to any big chunk match and you will see over 75 % of the targets are doughnut holes. most of shooter  are shooting pin head front sights. with a round rear notch. seems like their is this strange guy up in the backwood of Mich making   them.goes buy some comic book name of spydermatic
 don getz  i still have your old #4 xomatic 1/2 stock 45 cal 1 1/4 inch round barrel chunk gun you made up for me.still have fun when the people ask me where i came up with the stainless steel barrel over 12 years old now and still never got around to doing anything with the barrel .cleaning the outside is a snappy. put oil on scotchbrite and run up down the barrel couple of times and done.never have to worry about scratching or ruining the finish job. beware though. it drives joel  crazy because not finished.
dag

[dagner]

nugget  want to improve your string .only one way in chunk. practice and practice.couple times at range and you will have best load firgured out. no big secrete ask around for people who have same cal  barrel and twist from same maker.you will find out almost all shoot very close to same load.next after you get load . no more just shooting into the same hole.you want to get better at chunk. shoot 5 practice shots  then go down and put a x under your target.a big part of the game is learning how to put your x. walk down and do this after every shot if you can or every couple at the most. honestly score your 10 shots. man we all can shoot little mothballs in practice.you are in your comfort zone.as paul told me --now do it match day.this is how he and all the big dogs tell new shooters how to get better and have a lot more fun at the chunk matches. also  -get a wind flag and leqarn to use it.

[nugget1750]

dagner, thanks for the advise...good stuff....boy are you ever right about being 'home alone' and shooting fine, then on game day the fliers seem to swarm the target....but that is what seperates the scores in the end....practice is the answer for sure. I was hoping for a little more time before the York to practice but work seems to be in the way most times...including  weekends....just getting away for a couple of days and hearing all those shootin' sticks going off will be worth the trip...shoot straight

[dagner]

 thanks nugger just passing along what the guys helped me with. you will find out most chunk shooters are interested in winning. aka the best shot. they will tell you everything to level the playing field.remember  practice chunk shooting off of it .not the same on bench.watch the top shooters. they are anal about setting up their  targets chunks and mats.  repeatability!!you can watch them spend a hour continually geting up and down adjusting them till perfect.  you need a good chunk mat or general shooting mat  midway usa runs a sale of their $100 one every 30 days or so for $50  lots of guys are using them  it is the 35 inch wide by 76 long. the best way for patch is use teflon .minuetman archery in muzzle blasts or the blue texas patch sold at friendship.  99% of best shooters use it  most use .020 thick . i was  fed up with muzzle loading and ready to sell it all off  till i ran into the chunk shooters  .they got me back into just go shoot and have fun

[nugget1750]

Rifle arrived safe and sound...very pleased...Thanks again Colin...the trigger guard is sooo nice...dito for the rest of the gun as well...just what I wanted...many days of fun ahead....can't wait to shoot...shoot...shoot...'Daddy Beav' will be proud....

[Kermit]

"Hey Don there's talk of starting up the Walbash Valley style matches that are shot off a bench of sorts at 30 yrds. They shoot this sort of thing out Missouri way yet.  Mostly the ground is getting too far down, probably the same reason it got started back in the day. At any rate it's a fiine place for a 20 pound 36 caliber."

Hey, Paul, let's hear more about these matches. 30 yds and a bench? What some of us with white in the whiskers are going to need if we want to keep shooting. Getting up and down is what's got me playing with a round ball bench gun. Sure would like to keep my chunk gun shooting!

[Larry Pletcher]

Thank you all for the lessons on chunk gun shooting, especially the information about sights.  For someone like me who hasn't tried this before, your thoughts are very helpful.

Since the sights are non-adjustable and it helps to NOT have the gun shoot to point of aim, I'm beginning to realize why one uses a dedicated gun for chunk rather than grabbing your favorite off hand gun and heading to York.

This has me thinking that a gun I currently have might work for chunk.  It's a gun made from a Chambers early Lancaster kit I think.  Its a wide butt with a .54  caliber barrel.  It shoots center now, but a taller front sight would place the shoot low as Paul likes.  Is a .54 used much for chunk? 

My shooting problems are more connected to my eyes than getting up and down, so far.  I made a couple of hoods (shaders?) to cover the sights.   Are they allowed?

Thanks again for all your advice on shooting chunk guns.
Regards,
Pletch

[tuffy]

I thought this may be helpful. This can be down loaded or ordered from the NMLRA. Please note that the Chunk Gun rules are from 5400 - 5520. Also suggested that if a rule states a reference to another rule, then it is recommended to read that rule also.
http://www.nmlra.org/pdfs/web_RangeRuleBook5-10.pdf

    CW

[Don Getz]

Pletch............yes, you can shoot the match with any gun.   That early lancaster is a nice gun, and if it shoots rather well
you could give it a try.    As for rules, not all aspects of the NMLRA rules apply...........it is not an NMLRA shoot.   It would
be helpful to make a set of shaders for your gun.   Make something that will kind of snap onto the barrel, hold it on with
black plastic electrical tape.   Also, make up a sighter target, something that you can see well. then give it a try before
you go down there to shoot.  Don't forget your good cleaning rod.     The Alvin York shoot is a special shoot, nothing else
like it in the world.    I can recall Raymond Sites won it two years in a row, and, I think he was shooting a 54 cal. gun.  The
funny thing about this game, the following year, after having won it for two years running, he did not place in the top 40
shooters...........very humbling...................Don

[Dphariss]

Thank you all for the lessons on chunk gun shooting, especially the information about sights.  For someone like me who hasn't tried this before, your thoughts are very helpful.

Since the sights are non-adjustable and it helps to NOT have the gun shoot to point of aim, I'm beginning to realize why one uses a dedicated gun for chunk rather than grabbing your favorite off hand gun and heading to York.

This has me thinking that a gun I currently have might work for chunk.  It's a gun made from a Chambers early Lancaster kit I think.  Its a wide butt with a .54  caliber barrel.  It shoots center now, but a taller front sight would place the shoot low as Paul likes.  Is a .54 used much for chunk? 

My shooting problems are more connected to my eyes than getting up and down, so far.  I made a couple of hoods (shaders?) to cover the sights.   Are they allowed?

Thanks again for all your advice on shooting chunk guns.
Regards,
Pletch

Not shooting to point of aim may work well where the wind does not blow.
Where I live the wind may blow at 10-20 MPH (or worse) from all points of the compass during a 10 shot match. Not having a zero makes it much harder to determine the hold when the wind does a 180 and point of impact moves 4" or more. Trust me.
Also never assume that what works for one guy works for another.
An unzeroed gun won't work for this either.
 

Since shooting live turkeys is no longer PC.


So if your rifle is accurate and you can hold it consistently you can do well and shoot short strings. 
20/15 vision helps to, if you have it

Shaders are important but can be bent from .040 brass to slip on the barrel.
Test to find the sweet spot for resting the rifle as well. Some can be very finicky.

Dan

[Militant_Hillbilly]

"Hey Don there's talk of starting up the Walbash Valley style matches that are shot off a bench of sorts at 30 yrds. They shoot this sort of thing out Missouri way yet.  Mostly the ground is getting too far down, probably the same reason it got started back in the day. At any rate it's a fiine place for a 20 pound 36 caliber."

Hey, Paul, let's hear more about these matches. 30 yds and a bench? What some of us with white in the whiskers are going to need if we want to keep shooting. Getting up and down is what's got me playing with a round ball bench gun. Sure would like to keep my chunk gun shooting!

Here's a thread from last year about the MO match:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15538.0

[Paul Griffith]

Hey, Paul, let's hear more about these matches. 30 yds and a bench? What some of us with white in the whiskers are going to need if we want to keep shooting. Getting up and down is what's got me playing with a round ball bench gun. Sure would like to keep my chunk gun shooting!

Basically it's just chunk gun rules shot off a table at 30 yds.  Aubry Williams put together a book about the shootin that took place around Terra Haute, IN back in the day. Billy Veeters rifles were associated with this area I believe. In his book there's a drawing of one of the tables used. To me it didn't much look any better than one I shot on at Bloomdale MO. The old picnic table there would cave in with a decent church basement ham stuck in the middle of it. The scoring is a bit of a problem as most anybody worth a hoot will tear up the X pretty regularly. I think this is where the pre war table comes in as it will tend to open up the group a little.

As far as the guns being zeroed in. We are zeroed in, just not at the top of the front sight. So where are you shootin in the wind, Dan?

[Larry Pletcher]

THanks again guys.

Don, I made a pair of shaders from PVC and painted them black, inside and out.  The slide on the narrow section of the swamp and then are slid forward or back to cover the sights.  They seem to work, but I need to work out a few things yet.

Dan and Paul, my last practice with the gun was last fall.  I had a 25 yd zero, but not with as heavy load as I'd probably use for chunk.  As it is, its probably a couple inches low at 60 yds.  I figure I need to practice  a bunch anyway. My next chance will probably be Friendship.  I can't go to York; I''l be in Houston with our high school team running in the Shell Eco Marathon.  We won the Diesel class a year ago, and will take a car for the gas and electric classes.

Regards,
Pletch

[okieboy]

  As for scoring at Bloomsdale, each scored shot is scored by three people. they DO NOT look at shots that don't cut center and people who are going to get scored bring precision "half bullets" to fit into the hole. The hole is in a board, because the way they shoot is to cut a fine X with a sharp knife on to a board (you should bring your own board) and then locate your spotter from the X, the opposite of shooting paper and I think more difficult.
 There is no string measure, the best shot takes first, the next best shot takes second; so a single shooter could take the first six places, it is a six shot match. They don't know how many place prizes there will be while shooting the match, because the "sponser" of the match will late in the match take the entry money (On your honour place $10 in the bucket.) and cross the road to the butcher and make his best deal.
 I had taken a half bullet that I tried to cut with a knife from a round ball, but a friendly shooter showed me his half bullets and they were conical, cast from babbet, and I believe faced and given a tiny center mark on a lathe. Maybe someone here has some knowledge of making half bullets that they could share.
 At 30 yards and off a picnic table they refer to this as shooting centers or a center match.
 Some of those good people are seriously good shooters.

[dagner]

 okey  you got it part right on scoring .the center of the ball to center of the x .over the years i have saw a 54 cal win meat with no x on it. have saw 32 cals win with no x on it pretty regularly. a lot of guys just file the ball in half or put in on belt sander. the guys down their have 1/2 ball bolds made up for different  calibers. paul g  and dave b make great  little machined devices that mark the dead center of the balls from 32 to 54 cal .the number of meat places is based  on the total number of shooters .  the gentleman that runs it does it for fun to keep the event going..see quite a few of very good chunk  and off hand shooter their from ill and mo every year.griff  and bill b even made the pilgramage and are  hooked.he is wanting to start it up out east.
dag

[Paul Griffith]

So, Nugget........you had a chance to fire Daddy Beav up yet? I mean you've had it for a few days or so. By now you should have used that famous chunk gun comment "what the $#*!'s it doing way over there".  Usually this comment makes its appearence late in a match when a shooter is cruising toward a good string. He might even be so foolish as to say something idiotic like "man I'm hammering the X today". Of course the 3 inch miss will bring about great laughter &  overwhelming humility for the almost short string shooter.

[nugget1750]

Paul,........I was looking so forward to shooting this weekend......started feeling bad Fri......ended up at the Dr. Office.....too sick to be out......that is two less days to practice for the York.....your record is still safe....lol....I  may just have to take some personal days when I get over this bug and burn some powder.....I was hoping to give you guys a report by now.....I do have come colored papers and orange tape as you suggested to make sighters with.....I will let you all know how it goes with 'Daddy Beav's first outing.....when it happens!

[smokinbuck]

I've been to the York 17 out of the last 19 years, this being the 20th anniversary, and haven't shot worth a darn yet, but have enjoyed every trip. It's an experience that every shooter that is able should attend. The shooting, the people and the atmosphere cannot be duplicated on such a grand scale. I have had 2 of Ron Borron's rifles and still have 1 in the rack, that will be available, and both have Paul's pin head sights on them. If you learn how to use them you will be hard to beat, I obviously haven't. Any way, looking forward to seeing everyone in a few weeks.
Mark

[dagner]

smokingbuck remember  when heavy the winds  starts barrelling down the valley -swirling and reversing  at york.  the favorite saying is aw $#@*.because you just fired and the wind is blowing your smoke the opisite way you were shooting . that range has gutted everybody who has shot their regularly.i can remember in shooting in a sleveless t shirt and working on a tan to insulated bibs and freezing at fire.couple years back had  heavy rain snow and sleet all in the same relay. yet still marveled when couple   shooters would shoot a 3.8 in these conditions.it is a event worth shooting in.have made friends their from all across country  and canada i still keep in regular contacrt with

[nugget1750]

Ron, Don, and Paul...
Hey fellow 'chunkers'....I spent the entire day shooting different recipes through 'Daddy Beav'_______ after many 5 shot groups at various colors of spotters________ the best of the day was three groups that measured 2 5/8, 2 1/8, and 1 7/8 inches. I used 18 thousands pillow tic lubed with a small squirt of dish detergent in a small spray bottle filled with tap water.....a .400 round ball.....pushed with just 60 grains of 3fff g Goex black powder. I shot charges of 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, and 85 grains. The groups from 70-85 grains were 6-8 inches...I was a bit disappointed because on a windy day I think I will need some extra push to fight the wind. Also all the best groups were shot with a black rectangle on a medium blue background as the spotter. I also tried medium green, flouesent orange, and regular brown card board. Next time I will be trying a little thicker patch and a .395 ball with all the range of powder charges I used today.  I want to thank you all again for the great advise you shared  earlier about spotters, lube, swabbing between shots and everthing else I asked about. 

Any suggestions about those large groups with the heavier powder charges ?

[Paul Griffith]

So, how'd the patches look. Sometimes a new barrel will still be on the rough side. A bunch of shootin can smooth thing out a bit.

Here's another thought. Earlier there was some discussion about the adjustable chunk. People have a tendency to put a target down & start aiming at it, adjusting the chunk & at some point saying that it's good & start shootin. Sometime set it up from the other end. Put a blank piece of cardboard a few feet in front of the gun & you crawl into the gun & get the best, solidest, sweetest position that you can. Try different hand positions, different angles as far as how the body comes into the gun, ect.

After you're content that you've got things as good as it gets, have someone lift the card board & without you moving a musle move the chunk so you're aiming at the target. Now cut a small block of wood to put under the toe of the gun so it aims at the target when you rest the toe on it & the muzzle on the chunk. You set the chunk this way at the start of a shoot & it will more or less fit the same each time. It's not possible to just set the chunk once & take it everywhere & have it fit. Each range & setup is a little different.

[Don Getz]

Nuggett...........about those powder charges.   What rifling twist is in your barrel?    It appears that it doesn't like a heavy
charge, something you would run into with a 1 in 48" twist.    I would settle on the most accurate load you can get out
of it, then learn to read the wind.  I also agree with Paul on adjusting your chunk.    I would lay out my whole shooting site, my chunk and shooting mat.   I would then lay down, get as comfortable as I could, holidng the gun in a shooting
position, then look at the sights.......were they high or low?    I would then adjust the chunk and go thru the same routine
again.  Don't adjust your body to get on the target, maintain that comfortable position, and move your chunk to get on the
target.   Good shooting..................Don

[Dphariss]

Try going to a different lube.
Try neatsfoot oil (pure only) both pretty wet and squeezed nearly dry.

I have a 70" twist 50 that will blow "Schoultz" method patches if not protected with a patch put over the powder. Everything else comes out reusable. With an over powder patch its very accurate.

I have yet to see a 50 that would not shoot 1/2 ball weight of powder well if not excellent and this includes a 48 twist 50 that was extremely accurate with 90gr of FFF Goex. Like 1" at 100 on a calm day.
So do some load development. Different patches (tighter fits) and ball sizes. I would have STARTED this rifle at 100 gr given its weight.
My heavy gain twist McLemore seems to prefer 100+ of FF Swiss and its a 50. It shoots everything fairly well but so far 108-110 has been best. But I need more work with this rifle. I may go to 120 gr. 
So play with patch lubes and heavy charges and see what happens. There are many options. If you are serious about chunk shooting try the Dutch Schoultz method as well.

Dan

[Kermit]

"Over powder patch?" Tell us more, Dan. What are you doing--just pushing another hunk of rag down barrel on top of the powder followed by the usual patched ball? Using a bore-sized wad of card/felt/shoe leather/plywood/al dente lasagne noodle? What? I was starting to toy with such an idea, but wondered if'n it be legal and proper and all...

BTW, this thread has been VERY helpful!

[Roger Fisher]

Nuggett....... Larry Landis from Lewistown was using that three part cleaner (Murphys Oil soap, alcohol, and Peroxide).
After about a year of use, he had a barrel that was lightly pitted from end to end.     Murphy's Oil and alcohol might be OK,
but, forget the peroxide     ..........Don

Beware the Murphy's oil soap schmutz.  seems to work fine for a while then fliers back then w/o said Murphy's then fliers get back to a minumum.  or so I'm told. Well the victims came out of Philadelphia so who knows