sifting powder

[camerl2009]

i was reading a bit and was woundering i know goe has alot of fine powder in the mix of the corse stuff and was thinking what do you guys use to sift it out i figure the more consistent my powder then better my groupes are going to get with both my muzzleloaders and my BPCR's

[roundball]

I'm not a bullseye shooter, don't measure my group size with a caliper, etc...have gone through several cases of Goex 3F over the years now and wasn't aware there was any noteworthy issue of 'fines'...I'll be interested in hearing other replies.

Just speculating, if an individual was using a tiny .32/.36cal where powder charges were tiny to begin with and a particular powder charge or two might have an inordinately high percentage of fines, I guess there could be a slight difference but given all the other variables, whether it would be seen at the target I don't know.

But my gut is that in larger calibers with moderate to large powder charges I doubt a lot of folks could point out a difference at the target if somebody else loaded their rifle for them with 4-5grns more or less powder than normal...

[The other DWS]

would fines naturally sift to the bottom of a container, flask, horn or canister with time and vibration/abrasion between grains?  if that is the case you'd have the larger, probably more uniform, grains at the top for most of your shots.


 I suppose if you were forced by circumstances to be shooting out of a near empty horn or flask the last shot or two might make for a surprise, but most likely you'd refill before you were shooting 4F or smaller charges. 
 I wonder if old time shooters who were pouring into a small measure would notice that the powder had gotten to the "fine" line, and maybe started setting it aside for prime for critical shots.

[robert]

I always turn my horns and powder cans over and over a few times to mix it. You are right about it making a differants in small bores.

[Dphariss]

i was reading a bit and was woundering i know goe has alot of fine powder in the mix of the corse stuff and was thinking what do you guys use to sift it out i figure the more consistent my powder then better my groupes are going to get with both my muzzleloaders and my BPCR's

For a round ball gun I would not worry much if the accuracy is good.
BPCR you need better powder and if its so mixed in grain as the need sifting it may not work all that well.

The old timers used to sift FG to get the grain size uniform.
Pottery, actual pottery, supply houses have screens of various meshes for making glazes etc.
Figure the mesh you need they buy it. You can find BP screen sizes if you look on the WWW I think.

Dan

[Daryl]

In the 70's there wer a lot of 'fines' in the GO and other powders - dusty, they were. Today, I've not seen this as a problem with GOEX.  To me, it looks like excellently, clean, hard shiny grains of powder with litterally no dust or 'fines'.  It surely shoots well for me and I do use a mic.

It also shoots OK in my Sharps, is 1" for 5 shots at 109yards using apertures is OK.   I haven't done any long range shooting with it to far, though. We will be this coming summer with our new 1,065 meter range, and will see then if we need to sift the powder.

[camerl2009]

i was reading a bit and was woundering i know goe has alot of fine powder in the mix of the corse stuff and was thinking what do you guys use to sift it out i figure the more consistent my powder then better my groupes are going to get with both my muzzleloaders and my BPCR's

For a round ball gun I would not worry much if the accuracy is good.
BPCR you need better powder and if its so mixed in grain as the need sifting it may not work all that well.

The old timers used to sift FG to get the grain size uniform.
Pottery, actual pottery, supply houses have screens of various meshes for making glazes etc.
Figure the mesh you need they buy it. You can find BP screen sizes if you look on the WWW I think.

Dan

i cant get any other powder then goex in my BPCR i use FG and in my other guns FFG

[northmn]

Some used to "sock" the powder.  Term came from putting the powder in a cotton sock and shaking it up.  The graphite and other small stuff would stick to the sock.  Does it make any difference

DP

[Habu]

I'm not sure socking made any difference on the target, but it did seem to result in more consistent velocity.  It may have just been a confidence factor, especially for folks like me who would then proceed to put the powder in a horn and carry it for a while (and create more "fines" from the bouncing around) before shooting.

[greybeard]

This post kind of reminds me of splitting hairs!!!!
Bob

[Daryl]

Actually, what is probably is, is someone may have read about sifting powder on another forum and asked that question here.

[EC121]

After the powder is sifted it is then poured into a barrel and scraped down the bore then crushed with the ramrod.  I would guess that the ball/patch/lube combination would be more critical than some fines.  The variables are  more easily controlled in BPCR(drop tubes, bullet sizing, etc.) so the difference may show up.

[Dphariss]

After the powder is sifted it is then poured into a barrel and scraped down the bore then crushed with the ramrod.  I would guess that the ball/patch/lube combination would be more critical than some fines.  The variables are  more easily controlled in BPCR(drop tubes, bullet sizing, etc.) so the difference may show up.

Most people can't put enough pressure on a rod to crush powder.
I used to get Goex that was so dusty I would throw 25% of it away. This is no longer the case.
Fines change flame propagation in the charge and other things. The only thing that will determine if sifting works would be serious testing.
Sifting powder was common in slug gun shooting and BPCR in the 19th century with serious shooters. But the average shooter did not bother. But the average shooter was unlikely to win against the guys doing the sifting. They did not do it just to take up spare time. It had to improve accuracy.
Dan

[The other DWS]

In the shooting sports a lot of that super-detailed hair-splitting attention is what separates the top .5% from the 1% below them.  I'm about half convinced that those very top echelon shooters do some of that stuff as part of the mind games they play among themselves.   Most of the rest of the 98.5% of us are doing so much "shooter-induced angle of dispersion" that about all it can do for us is maybe add a little confidence.

Indeed "fines" If there are any to speak of in modern quality BP from any of the major mfgs) could affect burning properties especially in the small bores and shorter barrels.  But I doubt that most of us would ever be able to detect the difference.

[Daryl]

The only thing that will determine if sifting works would be serious testing.
 Dan

[Dphariss]

In the 70's there wer a lot of 'fines' in the GO and other powders - dusty, they were. Today, I've not seen this as a problem with GOEX.  To me, it looks like excellently, clean, hard shiny grains of powder with litterally no dust or 'fines'.  It surely shoots well for me and I do use a mic.

It also shoots OK in my Sharps, is 1" for 5 shots at 109yards using apertures is OK.   I haven't done any long range shooting with it to far, though. We will be this coming summer with our new 1,065 meter range, and will see then if we need to sift the powder.

As I think I have posted before. When Goex was making powder at Moosic they were using ground water contaminated with bacteria that EAT sulfur. As soon as the water was added to the mix they went to work and ate at the finished powder until the oxygen level would drop in a sealed can. The interesting part was many cans came with loose lids.... So when new powder arrived first thing all the lids got tightened.
There were good lots and lots that were useless and simple would not produce accuracy in a BPCR and every new lot required new load development.
Some lots were so dusty that 25% of the powder was unusable.
This was all too apparent when using a drop tube to load cartridges. When I got down in the can far enough to get a layer of powder dust on top the the charge in the case, the dust fell slower than the grains, I changed powder cans.
I scrapped a lot of powder this way.
People shooting MLs might not notice the dust as easily.
A friend who posts here and lived in Easter PA would tell me what lots to buy based on the rainfall. Heavy rain during a month made for better powder since it diluted the bug count.
This problem went away with the move to Minden, cleaner water. So the powder immediately improved. There were other things that improved the powder since Moosic as well.

Dan

[Dphariss]

In the shooting sports a lot of that super-detailed hair-splitting attention is what separates the top .5% from the 1% below them.  I'm about half convinced that those very top echelon shooters do some of that stuff as part of the mind games they play among themselves.   Most of the rest of the 98.5% of us are doing so much "shooter-induced angle of dispersion" that about all it can do for us is maybe add a little confidence.

Indeed "fines" If there are any to speak of in modern quality BP from any of the major mfgs) could affect burning properties especially in the small bores and shorter barrels.  But I doubt that most of us would ever be able to detect the difference.

I know some national champions. They don't have time to play games. If its a waste of time they don't mess with it.

Dan

[Daryl]

Just as most modern BR shooters don't weigh powder charges - from the measure into the case.