Author Topic: Barrel inlet (Read 12308 times)

The Original Griz · « **on:** February 23, 2012, 12:32:46 PM »

I do not build rifles but a good friend of mine does (yes I have a friend) but we were talking the other night at pistol league and he wants to do a swamped barrel. I asked if he used a router or shaper to cut his barrel channels and he said yes but he didn't know how to do a swamped barrel inlet since the barrel is curved. My question is, does the inlet of a stock need to be cut with the arc in it to match the barrel or can the channel be cut straight and the barrel just sit on the front and back with a space through the middle of the barrel?
I hope my question makes sense....

Ted Kramer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2012, 01:38:59 PM »

The inlet should be cut to match the profile of the barrel so the stock wood is well supported by the barrel and to look good.

The Original Griz · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:17:27 PM »

he is going to cut the barrel shape on the sides to match the barrel, he was wondering if the under side where it would not be seen would need to be the same or could it be cut straight with out touching the barrel the whole length? Maybe I misunderstood your answer, never said I was smart

mjm46@bellsouth.net · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:47:44 PM »

Never examined an antique close enough to actually see how they used to do it, but all the modern made swamped barrel inlets that I have seen and built were fully inlet to the contour of the barrel. Pretty tough to do with a simple router.

Osprey · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:07:51 PM »

If all he's got is a router, measure the barrel at it's thinnest cross section, then route a channel that width and depth. That'll give him a straight guideline to do the rest of the fitting by hand with chisels and scrapers. I've done several like this and it's not as hard as you'd think.

BillC · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:39:28 PM »

You can saw and rasp the top of the blank to match the bottom barrel profile before routing. This will give you a good stoping point. The sides can be done with wood rails glued on to match the barrel and cut with a bit that has a ball bearing guide. However, hand cutting the sides is probably better and the oblique flats will have to be cut by hand anyway.
Bill

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:24:31 PM »

What Osprey said and leave the bottom of the inlet round, it doesn't have to fit exactly to the flats on the bottom of the barrel. The wood will be hanging on the lugs. Just scrape deeper at the breech and muzzle so your middle lugs will reach the web....

The Original Griz · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2012, 12:10:48 PM »

thanks for all the response's, I am going to print this off hor him so he can see what you all said. Thanks again...

AndyThomas · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:16:44 PM »

Jack Brooks has some good instructions on inleting barrels here: http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/theclassroom.htm

Andy

The Original Griz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:30:00 PM »

wow, thats some good info, thanks... i will show this to him, I know this will help him out.

James Wilson Everett · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2012, 07:01:22 AM »

Griz,

Since you know that I most often make my own barrels, I cannot use the precarved stocks and must hand inlet the swamped barrels.

How I do it is to cut the wood down to the level of the barrel centerline, leaving the breech end "hump" high and square. I have two rods, each 1/2 inch square and about a foot longer than the barrel. I have drilled a lot of holes through the rods to fit #8 screws all along the length of the rods. I lay the barrel with the rods on each side on the wood surface. Using a bunch of C-clamps I clamp the rods to flex and fit tightly against the sides of the swamped barrel. Next I drill down through the existing holes and install the #8 screws tight. The holes are offset in the rod to allow for the thickness of the finished forestock, and none are installed where the lock panels are (the wood would be too thick here and the #8 screws would cut into this thickness). With the rods tightly screwed to the wood, I remove all the clamps and the barrel. This leaves the rods on the wood at the exact shape of the swamp curve. This gives an excellent guide for chiseling out the barrel channel.

I actually use a modified backsaw to cut the channel exactly along the curved rods. You can really inlet a swamped barrel air tight this way. The job can be completed in a few hours. If you guys can wait until late May when I return to the USA, I can lend you the rods & modified saw.

Jim

Meteorman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »

that's good stuff, James. thank you.
love to hear more about (or see a pic?) that modifed backsaw sometime.
/mike

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:31:23 PM »

The process that James discussed is that used and written about by John Bivins. He wrote an article for Rifle magazine detailing the process. If you can get a copy of this, it would certainly help.

James Wilson Everett · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:33:58 PM »

Mike,

I am not able to get a photo of the modified back saw now, but I will try to describe it. I took a small backsaw and cut away the forward half of the back rib and tapered the blade nearly to a point. This leaves the forward tip of the back saw very flexible and able to follow the curve of the rods with a little finger pressure. I also removed the kerf from one side of the teeth to make the blade cut very true on that side only. This makes the saw cut to line up exactly with the face of the square rod, without even the tiny gap that would be the result of leaving the kerf as is. This may be overkill.

I cut down along the edge of the square rods with the flexible modified back saw to a half flat depth (half the octagon flat - about 3/16 - 1/4 or so. Then I hog out the interior with a big U-gouge and a big mallet. You can really whack it as the rods will prevent cutting outside the lines. I can't remember where I learned this, but it did not originate with me.

I hope that this is understandable.

Jim

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:43:55 PM »

From what I understand, Wallace Gusler noted saw kerfs remaining in an original barrel channel and then between him and John Bivins, they developed the process. It's not unreasonable when you consider that guide strips were tacked on when cutting dados in casework. The process isn't too different.

Meteorman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:20:49 PM »

thank you Gentlemen.
I'll dig around for the Bivins article also.
apologies to Griz if I detoured the thread.
/mike

The Original Griz · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2012, 10:06:38 PM »

Mike, no apology needed, this is how we all learn and that is why I asked this in the first place. Beside, when it comes to rifle building, Mr. Everett is one fellow that you all want to listen too...
I am glad to get all the responses I am getting, this will help my buddy greatly.

bluenoser · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2012, 04:07:51 AM »

The John Bivins article can also be found in "Gunsmithing Tips & Projects" published by Wolfe Publishing Co.

Laurie

Long John · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2012, 05:52:01 AM »

There are a lot of different variations on how to let in a swamped barrel. I don't mess with the steel rods Bivens and other use.

I mark the bottom flat on the top surface of the stock and cut a rectangular groove the exact shape of the bottom flat from breech to muzzle, using a depth gauge to make it the right depth along its length. I then break the edges of top of that groove so my barrel can be clamped down onto the stock. Then I hold a wide, flat chisel flat against the side wall and stab down into the wood for the side of the inlet on both sides. I then make diagonal cuts along the stab and remove a small wedge of wood. Now I have a wall against which to hold a customized saw for cutting the sides of the inlet. As I cut the side walls deeper I remove wood so that I get a cross-section that is stepped. Then I remove the edge of the step and end up with a half octagon groove. I smooth-up the groove with scrapers and rasps for final fit. I don't buy the round groove method.

Using only hand tools it takes me about 2.5 hours per foot of barrel on a good day.

Acer and I have talked about doing some building demonstrations at the ALR tent at the Fair this summer and barrel inletting was one of the demos we thought about doing. We'll see how that idea progresses this spring.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

JDK · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2012, 06:05:21 AM »

Long John, Your description of your method was clear and concise. I look forward to seeing you and Tom execute it in the heat of Dixon's.....maybe there will be a breeze....or two, if your lucky. Historically speaking, I think your method seems more plausible than the bars and screws method. Seems more straight forward and in keeping with other methods and would still explain the saw marks that were said to have been seen in some original barrel channels. If some did use the bars and screws method, I bet a greater number did it your way. J.D.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2012, 01:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Long John on February 27, 2012, 05:52:01 AM

There are a lot of different variations on how to let in a swamped barrel. I don't mess with the steel rods Bivens and other use.

I mark the bottom flat on the top surface of the stock and cut a rectangular groove the exact shape of the bottom flat from breech to muzzle, using a depth gauge to make it the right depth along its length. I then break the edges of top of that groove so my barrel can be clamped down onto the stock. Then I hold a wide, flat chisel flat against the side wall and stab down into the wood for the side of the inlet on both sides. I then make diagonal cuts along the stab and remove a small wedge of wood. Now I have a wall against which to hold a customized saw for cutting the sides of the inlet. As I cut the side walls deeper I remove wood so that I get a cross-section that is stepped. Then I remove the edge of the step and end up with a half octagon groove. I smooth-up the groove with scrapers and rasps for final fit. I don't buy the round groove method.

Using only hand tools it takes me about 2.5 hours per foot of barrel on a good day.

Acer and I have talked about doing some building demonstrations at the ALR tent at the Fair this summer and barrel inletting was one of the demos we thought about doing. We'll see how that idea progresses this spring.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Long John, your method interests me. How do you cut your initial bottom flat, with just gouges or a combination of gouges and the saw? Also, what saw do you use/ you say it is customised? Please elaborate a little more. Your method sounds historically plausible to me.

Long John · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2012, 07:00:23 PM »

I use primarily a mallet and chisels for the first rectangular groove. As the groove gets deeper I will use the saw to deepen the sides, especially if the curl in the wood is gnarly.

My saw consists of a short back saw with a replacement handle that provides clear space beneath the handle to allow the saw to be run along the top of the blank from muzzle to breech. I also filed the set off of the teeth on both sides. This makes the saw prone to binding but prevents widening the barrel inlet with progressive strokes of the saw. Even though it is a back saw I have had no difficulty in having the saw follow the gentle curve of the barrel profile.

Finally, Acer did NOT commit to doing barrel inlet work during that hot weekend at Dixons! That was something I could do. I think he is planning on a cooler, more artful demonstration like carving or engraving. Right now we talked about having a number of benches set up for a number of demonstrations. The idea is to have things going on that attendees could stop in, see and monitor progress over an entire day or weekend. The ideas are still in the air and haven't landed yet.

Best regards,

John Cholin

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2012, 07:12:33 PM »

When I inlet a barrel, I have Dave Rase do it for me. I have inlet plenty by hand, and now realize the errors of my ways.

Yes, for Dixon's perhaps some carving and engraving demos are in order.

Six months to go!

Tom

Tom Currie · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2012, 07:36:04 PM »

Long John, For a new builder who inspires to build from a blank, barrel inletting by hand is a daunting task. Having one on a bench being worked on would be a worthwhile demonstration in my opinion. I might even be persuaded to sit in for a while if your looking for a break.

And by the way Tom, it's only 5 months away ( I'm counting )

John Archer · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:31:09 AM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on February 27, 2012, 07:12:33 PM

When I inlet a barrel, I have Dave Rase do it for me.

X2!

John

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Author Topic: Barrel inlet (Read 12308 times)

mjm46@bellsouth.net

BillC

Meteorman

Meteorman