Author Topic: patch material  (Read 6472 times)

The other DWS

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patch material
« on: March 03, 2012, 05:45:57 PM »
Since I'm asking "dumb" newbie-type questions I thought of another one I should ask.
What makes the most desirable patch fabric?   
What makes the best "historically accurate" patch material?

I know that heavy weight cotton woven fabric was not terrible common in the 18th century.  light weight India-printed Calicos being a premium trade item valued right up there with silk up to near the Rev War era.  Denim (cloth de'Nime) was a high priced french-woven fabric; but I'm not sure when it became commonly available.   It appears that at least in the 18th and early 19th centuries that linen and wool and blends of them were the most common fabrics available.

It appears from what I have seen here so far (I'm just starting to look through the archives for "patch" threads) cotton fabric like denim seems to be the most commonly used/available.  IN the past I have used old worn-out heavy weight pure cotton "chamois-cloth" work shirts for patches.  Maybe I need to hit the GoodWill and salvation Army stores again.


Grullaguy

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Re: patch material
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 05:51:29 PM »
If you are trying out the Goodwill, try out some khaki pants like Dockers.

They are a favorite of mine. Even more so than the thin denim pants in the ladies section. :o

Offline Maven

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Re: patch material
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 07:47:00 PM »
Denim, muslin, pillow tick, pocket drill, even Dockers khaki trousers can be used as patches provided they're 100% cotton and thick and dense enough (thread count) to fit your gun's bore and roundball dimensions.  One place to look is Jo-Ann's Fabric:  http://www.joann.com/joann/home/home.jsp?cm_mmc=Bing-_-Brand-_-Brand+%28E%29-_-joann%27s+fabrics_Exact&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=joann%27s+fabrics&utm_campaign=Brand&002=2366114&004=286742148&005=9024129349&006=864819749&009=e&011=joann%20fabrics%20   

Be sure to bring a dial indicating caliper or micrometer with you to Jo-Ann's or other fabric store so that you can determine the proper thickness of the material in question.  As per Jo-Ann's site, you can order stuff online.
Paul W. Brasky

Offline Gene Carrell

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Re: patch material
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 09:04:04 PM »
I find it easiest to go buy what I need. That way  I always know exactly what I am getting and using. My normal patching is 10oz denum, 100% cotton from JoAnn fabric. It mikes right at 0.022" for me and works in most all guns tried. Some oiled, some greased, all washed before use.
Gene

catman

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Re: patch material
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 07:33:36 AM »
I use my old & very used levi's for patches for hunting, works very well.

Vomitus

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Re: patch material
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 08:14:30 AM »
 Gene, good advice.

54Bucks

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Re: patch material
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 03:43:37 PM »
It seems each rifle has it's own desired patch material. I also prefer to shop at Walmart(striped pillow ticking .017-.018) or JoAnns with my calipers where they have about anything imaginable. I know some used materials can make good economical patch material. Considering the low cost of new material, I'll go that route rather than used with questionable integrity/uniformity.

The other DWS

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Re: patch material
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 06:15:37 PM »
New bought fabric has usually been sized and pressed as part of the finishing process.  When "miking" it in the store; how does the measured thickness relate to the thickness once you have washed and dried it several times to get the sizing out?

54Bucks

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Re: patch material
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 06:29:35 PM »
Under pressure of calipers or mic, I've not seen any measureable difference before washing or after.

The other DWS

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Re: patch material
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 06:53:46 PM »
buying in bulk certainly makes a lot of sense. four or five yards on a consistent product would be better than sorting the ragbag every few months.

Does anyone use linen for patching?

Daryl

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Re: patch material
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 08:19:08 PM »
Some fabrics have more sizing that others. Thus, I've had some brands gain a thousandth, while others lose a thousandth - most lose. The greatest change was .002"- can't remember what it was.  The mattress ticking, seems to me, gained .0015" due to fluffing. The difference is usually not great.  That red/white/blue of a light blue background Railroad mattress ticking is wonderful patch material. It's very soft, easily compresses into the bore and shoots splendidly in LB's rifle, Darrel's, Kimm's Taylor's, Lens, and every one of my own, from the .32 to the .69.  Good stuff. It measured .020" with my mic, but .0235" with the calipers. 

Note, as I've said many times before, seems everyone's calipers or mic records a different # on the dial or tube. Taylor's mic is .001" different from mine. I have 3 sets of calipers, but always measure the same, pinching the tines between finger and thumb, not using the push button. My calipers give 3 different measurements, stating .002" 9on most materials) different from my mic.

Like Gene - I also like the 10oz denim. It is good, usually uniform and for me, runs .0220" to .0225" in thickness witht eh calipers and a full .020" with my mic., same as the "thicker by caliper" ticking.

8 ounce denim runs .017" with the mic and .020" with my smallest measuring dial calipers (best set). 8 ounce denim will shoot in some rifles, but does not seal in others and scorches badly, throwing accuracy out the window after only 4 shots. Even though it does this, it does not make wiping required at any time, it's accuracy is just lacking due to being too thin.  If you wipe every shot, it will work - I guess as the inner bore condition is changing, must be - but is too thin for me and those people I shoot with.  It is strange that the lowest pressure gun I shoot, the .69 (with it's squib load of 82gr. 2F) is the one that accurcy fails in with the 8 ounce.  The .58's hate it right from the get-got, but shoot the thicker patches just like every one of my guns.

As to different guns, we've found that material from .020" (micrometer compressed 'brrrrrt' with the ratchet) or thicker will shoot in every rifle we know of (even Rice & Getz rounded grooved) with a ball that is .005" or .006" under bore size - up to bore size. When going larger than bore size, a thinner, .015" to .018" will work just fine.

I run the 3 or 4 meters of new material through a washing cycle with a normal soap amount, then run a complete cycle again without soap.  I suspect the second cycle would not be needed if I hit the 'second' rinse button - a suggestion from my loving wife.

Offline LH

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Re: patch material
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2012, 09:23:26 PM »
twill weaves are good tough material.  And thicker aint always better.  Last summer I put a scope on my.40 cal.  flintlock and the cloth that I had thought was the most accurate (.017) was not as accurate as some .014 twill.  Not much difference, but enough that the results will repeat. 

Offline flintriflesmith

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Re: patch material
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 01:52:31 AM »
For historically accurate patch material I believe linen would be the most common in Colonial America. Huge quantities were imported and it was readily available in most stores for making shirts, trousers, handkerchiefs, etc. Scrap linen was pulverized and used to make the best paper.

The are a number of varieties of linen fabrics being sold but it's strength, compared to cotton, comes from the longer fibers. It also wicks away moisture better than cotton when used for shirts.

Lynton McKenzie had some "original" patches that came with a cased ca 1810 English sporting rifle and they were a glazed linen i.e. one that had been pressed, probably with heat, to form a hard slick surface.

Gary
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http://flintriflesmith.com

omark

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Re: patch material
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 07:55:13 PM »
the other dws, i got a linen table cloth yrs ago and used it. i thought it was as good or better than anything else i had tried.

you guys talk about using used jeans. i wear mine until they have holes in them, a definite variation in thickness. do you just use the backs which would be more consistant?      mark





Daryl

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Re: patch material
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 08:26:24 PM »
The only area on my old jeans that are usable for patches are the backs. The fronts make shop rags. I don't even bother nowadays due to their age, too many washings and possibility of the material's integrity gone.  I shoot sewing-store purchased material - it's cheap. I do not buy pre-cuts - they are expensive.

You might find new denim material in clothing at a thrift store. considering here, we're paying around $12.00 per meter, if priced at $3.00 to $5.00 for a new pair of jeans, that would be cheap material.

Vomitus

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Re: patch material
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 09:22:12 PM »
  I went to the fabric store last Sat. brandishing my dial calipers. The sales lady said,"Oh, it's one of THOSE guys!" ;D
   She was an elderly gal that new what she was doing so I asked her about sizing.She informed me that all this "off shore" cotton now has very little,if any sizing in it to save cost. Asians,LOL! I think I'll wash it anyways! :P :D

The other DWS

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Re: patch material
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2012, 03:37:31 AM »
how reliable is the fabric content with the awful-shore stuff

Grullaguy

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Re: patch material
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2012, 04:27:34 AM »
The only area on my old jeans that are usable for patches are the backs. The fronts make shop rags. I don't even bother nowadays due to their age, too many washings and possibility of the material's integrity gone.  I shoot sewing-store purchased material - it's cheap. I do not buy pre-cuts - they are expensive.

You might find new denim material in clothing at a thrift store. considering here, we're paying around $12.00 per meter, if priced at $3.00 to $5.00 for a new pair of jeans, that would be cheap material.

$3.00 at a local thrift store. I usually get around 800 patches from a set of pants. I pick through the selection until I find a gently wore pair.

Vomitus

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Re: patch material
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2012, 08:14:24 AM »
America exports her cotton to "you know where" and they ship it back as cloth. The 10 ounce I bought feels good.