Author Topic: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel  (Read 7251 times)

Offline Avlrc

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New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« on: March 10, 2012, 04:07:29 AM »
Did you ever see a Fowler "Rifle"?  I see on www.csarms.com they have a New England Fowler looking gun, that has a 48 inch barrel oct to round . w/ a .70 cal. Rifled barrel. Looks like it original lock.Does have a rear sight near breech and a front sight. Very interesting piece. Item # 5227
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 04:11:04 AM by Avlrc »

Offline Longknife

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »
A common European practice was to "straight" rifle smoothbores. A lot of New England fowlers were built wiith imported parts too..I wonder about the twist....Ed
Ed Hamberg

Offline tallbear

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 05:32:18 PM »
There are a number of New England guns that had rifling done at the end of the barrel to increase thier value by a dishonest seller some years back.This persons fakes are well know in collectors circles.Without inspecting this gun in person I would suspect that the rifleing does not go all the way down the barrel and this is a fowler that was altered very late in it's life.


Mitch

Offline Avlrc

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 05:53:38 PM »
Would like to see a pic of muzzle. The New England Fowlers I have handled barrels are very thin at the muzzle and could not have been rifled , unless some kind of insert/sleeve was put in place.Lock says Redfern, he was a gunsmith or lock maker in UK in the late 1700's or early 1800's. Maybe the whole gun was made in Europe and was used for hunting big game in Africa????? I can't tell by the pics what kind of wood it is.

Offline tallbear

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 05:58:14 PM »
Redfern  marked locks show up on new England guns from time to time,An importer I think (Boston area maybee).The hardware,engraving and architecture  on this gun say New England Fowler.

Offline Avlrc

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 06:01:15 PM »
Thanks, I was not sure!

Offline cmac

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 08:54:15 PM »
Isn't the lock late for a 1790s piece?

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 02:46:37 AM »
Given he remarks on the weight of the barrel, I'd say the gun is probably right. Not all NE rifles were made in the conventional form. I've had several that look superficially like a fowler, mounted with fowler style hardware but with heavier rifled barrels. I'd date that one after 1800 but the '90s isn't too far fetched although my feeling is that the price is.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 01:43:58 AM »
30+ years ago I saw a fowler, apparently, on a table at a Gunshow a Palmer AK.
Table label said "Militia Rifle" I asked the guy about it and he told me to look at it.
Was smooth for about 4" down from the muzzle then was rifled.
Stocked as a light fowler, but had a chisel erupted rear sight.
Wish I had photos of it.
Always have wondered where the rifle is now
Dan
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 02:05:24 AM »
Isn't the lock late for a 1790s piece?

No. I don't think this lock would even rate as state of the art by 1790.

Dan
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Offline tallbear

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 06:04:25 PM »
JV
Just a couple of my thoughts to further my education.

First as the rifle is .70 cal or 12 guage I would kinda discount the heavy barrel statement,as even with a 1 1/8   breach the barrel would not be that massive in weight.

Why would they make a rifle styled as a fowler in such a large caliber.It would be a bear to shoot.Of the rifled fowlers that you've seen any idea what calibers they were ?

Thanks for the info!!
Mitch Yates

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 07:13:24 PM »
I hadn't caught that... I guess I wasn't paying enough attention. I'd say its remotely possible but not likely. The largest bore NE rifle I've ever seen - that had rifling in it (as opposed to bored out and smooth) is about .65 caliber. Its just about right to take "16 to the pound" musket balls. It is a half-stock by Maynard with horse head patch box in a completely conventional "rifle-style." All of the other NE rifles I've owned or seen have been about .53 to .58 caliber.

I'll add that the heavy barrel "fowler-like" guns I've seen have all had smooth barrels. I once had another Maynard with a pronounced "Roman Nose" butt and a heavy barrel of about .54 caliber. I also remember one that looked superficially like a rifle but utilized a smooth octagon-to-round barrel of almost 1" bore! We generally referred to them as "buck and ball" guns though that is probably a collector term and not a contemporary one.

The basic fact is that no one, myself included, has ever done a really comprehensive study of the NE rifle. Although not as sought after in the collector world, they are quite a bit more rare than "Pennsylvania/Kentucky-style" rifles so assembling enough of them to study in a productive way is a good deal more difficult. There is (or was) such a collection, the owner of which was planning a book but if he's still with us, I imagine he's now too old to bring that project to completion.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 04:22:05 PM »
Longknife already mentioned straight rifling.
This is something to check.
I have seen a BL shotgun from Europe with rather robust straight rifling.

Dan
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Offline JV Puleo

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2012, 12:50:26 AM »
I have a very plain straight rifled NE rifle... oddly in what appears to be almost unfired condition. Its .54 caliber.

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2012, 12:50:48 AM »
I have a very plain straight rifled NE rifle... oddly in what appears to be almost unfired condition. Its .54 caliber.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: New England Fowler W/Rifled Barrel
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2012, 07:11:46 PM »
I have built a .58 caliber with rifled "Griffin" profile 42" OTR barrel.... looks like a fowler but has rear sight and a patchbox..... probably would have had a cheekpiece were it not for trusting some experts instead of doing my own research.... 1750..Benjamin Griffin????  Somebody copied that barrel from some original I would think...
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