Brass barrelled rifle - lock

[Ezra]

What, in your collective learned opinion, would be a good lock suggestion for a replica (read similar) of the brass barreled rifle (# 103) found in Schumways book? 
While I am not being too particular, I would like to come close.  I am thinking the Davis Germanic is too large.  Ditchburn is too small.  Chambers gunmakers flintlock would work for the lockplate, but the cock isn't right...   I guess I could just file...

Idea's?  Thanks.


Ez

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I've got the same problem!

[Evil Monkey]

Well....it seems to me that if you want to make a "replica of the brass barreled rifle found in Schumways book" then you either have to have parts that are exact copies of the parts on the BB rilfe (castings taken directly FROM the BB rifle would be good) or, you have to MAKE exact copies. Otherwise, you will be making a gun SIMILAR to " the brass barreled rifle found in Schumways book" from available parts in which case the size difference between the BB gun lock and the davis or Ditchburn locks doesn't really matter.  Just pick the one YOU like the best. JMO

[Ezra]

Mr. Evil,

Please let me re-phrase.  Similar (versus Simian, which is apparently what you are... ) is my intent, not exact replica.


Ez

[Brian]

Evil ..... simian?  You trying to get slapped with a banana?   

[J. Talbert]

I may be mistaken, BUT I believe the cock of the lock on the BB gun has been either replaced or at least repaired.  I say that because I was talking to Mark Silver about the engraving design on the lock, which is similar to the engraving on the Edward Marshall lock, however the engraving on the cocks of both of these locks has not survived.
Anyway I don't know if it's worth worrying too much about the cock in particular, since it may not be as originally built.

[Ezra]

Evil ..... simian?  You trying to get slapped with a banana?   

 

[keweenaw]

I would start with one of Jim's gunmaker's locks and reshape the cock to what you like.  You can get that lock with either the cock and internals of the standard Siler or the Improved model which has the cock from the Golden Age lock.

Tom

[Ezra]

I would start with one of Jim's gunmaker's locks and reshape the cock to what you like.  You can get that lock with either the cock and internals of the standard Siler or the Improved model which has the cock from the Golden Age lock.

Tom

Really?  Thanks, I did not know that. 


Ez

[Kermit]

I've wondered about brass-barreled rifles myself. I always stop at  this question: where do you get a brass barrel? I think someone recommended contacting Rayl. True?

[Ezra]

I've wondered about brass-barreled rifles myself. I always stop at  this question: where do you get a brass barrel? I think someone recommended contacting Rayl. True?

Yes, Ed Rayl.

(304) 364-8269


Ez

[Dennis Glazener]

Was just looking through Gunbroker auctions and saw this Russ Hamm lock that you might could modify to what you are looking for. No dimensions given.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117541041
Dennis

[Ezra]

Enlighten me Dennis.  Did Mr. Hamm make nice locks?  Sorry, but I have never heard of him.

Loren

[mazo kid]

Russ Hamm was an early builder of quality locks.

[t.caster]

I personally wouldn't put one (Hamm) on a new rifle. Unless it was to be a "wall hanger" only. My impression of them from back in the day was.....weak. Spend a little more $$ & get a new lock of todays quality standards. Just my 2 cents.

[Long John]

EZ, 

I would use the Chambers Gunmakers' lock.  While I love the Chambers product line, I find that I almost always end up reshaping the lock plate and hammer a little on every rifle I build.  There is enough steel on the hammer to adjust its profile and you will be amazed how much a little reshaping changes the character of the lock.  I don't have my references with me as I am in an airport hoping my flight home isn't cancelled, but take a hard look at the Gunmakers' lock and imagine what you can do with those parts.  The beauty of the Chambers product line is that it gives us the grist for our mill to build what we can imagine.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[jerrywh]

Russ ham's locks were about as good as you could get in 1960 Era. but not up to todays standards. I know guys who are still shooting guns with his locks on them.

[Ezra]

Regarding that Russ Hamm lock on Gunbroker, a certain someone we all know made an interesting observation to me about it.  They said that that lock, if parted out, might could be sold for more than the price of the lock itself.  I guess, being as how some folks are missing a certain single part.  I would never have thought of that.


Ez

[flintriflesmith]

I may be mistaken, BUT I believe the cock of the lock on the BB gun has been either replaced or at least repaired.  I say that because I was talking to Mark Silver about the engraving design on the lock, which is similar to the engraving on the Edward Marshall lock, but that the engraving on the cocks of both of them has not survived.
Anyway I don't know if it's worth worrying too much about the cock in particular, since it may not be as originally built.

Jeff,
You are right. Here is a picture of the actual BB Rifle lock. It had the cock replaced sometime during its period of use by an unengraved cock from a later English lock.



This lock is earlier in style than most repros. The engraving is very similar to the lock on the Edward Marshall rifle except whoever engraved this one apparently worked from a pattern and didn't understand the relationship between the engraving and the sear screw.

Gary

Edits in RED

[Ezra]

Gary,

Is there any realistic way to ascertain whether the replacement cock on the lock is close to what might have been original?  If not, any suggestions?  Thank you.


Ez

[rich pierce]

That (replacement) cock is narrow in the breast and neck compared to earlier Germanic cocks; altogether less robust looking than the cock on the Marshall rifle (which was repaired by brazing and maybe the engraving was lost in heating and possibly re-straightening).  Look again at the Marshall #41 in Shumway's RCA volume 1.

Maybe this lock from Jack Haugh (corrected- Jack Brooks) could work?  Seems about right in period and general shape and styling, except this has a blind sear screw.  Could make it go through.
Engrave it, change the frizzen spring, and you might be good to go

[flintriflesmith]

The Jack Haugh lock is pretty close.

This ca 1755-60 Jaeger lock is a bit long in the tail but I think the cock (if you can ignore the engraving) flows a little better and the thinner flat on the edge of the pan strikes me as a bit more PC. Obviously the BBR lock is trade quality and this Jaeger lock is much higher end.




Gary

[Ezra]

Is Mr. Haugh still making that lock?  If so, how does one contact him?  He is in Indiana, isn't he?

Gary, is that a TRS lock?

Ez

[flintriflesmith]

Gary, is that a TRS lock?
Ez

This is an original I own but I believe The Rifle Shop has one from the same German shop.

Chris Laubach is planning on reproducing my lock without the engraving but being a new Dad seems to have slowed him up on that project.

Gary

[Jim Kibler]

The lock Rich posted pictures of is an original that Jack Brooks pulled patterns from for investment casting.  These investment castings are available from Jack Brooks, not Jack Haugh.  Check out Jack Brooks's website and you will see this lock.