A general slowdown??

[Roger Fisher]

I refer here to a seemingly general slowdown (or drop off) in the enthusiasm for shooting that I have noticed in our area at several shoots and even at winter 2 day rondys.       Throwing out the fact that a couple of our area woods walks blanket shoots attracted upwards of 40 shooters incl several that traveled 2 hrs 1 way to attend and the shoots were 'only' blanket shoots... One 2 day winter rondy that usually attracts 'tween' 35 and 40 shooters drew only 9 on Saturday and 13 more for Sun day.

I am told one winter 'frozen toe' weekend only had 12 shooters and only 4 went thru their great 25 shot w walk.....

We had our local shoot last Sunday on a beautiful day and had 20 shooters which was down by 30%.  I noticed also that near half the shooters left around 12:30 or so and just 9 of us were still there when the cash was awarded.  

Bummer.. Can we blame the fuel costs that much?  Several regulars did not show.  Honey do chores??  One regular told me he was staying home to clean his cellar.  Being alone and retired that darn cellar could have waited another day.  Go figure.  

The question is to you blessed folks out there that stick to it and continue working the shoots and keep them going,, have you noticed such a general malaise also, and what do you blame for it mainly   Maybe the weather has just been tooooo nice..

[cahil_2]

I think the gas has a lot to do with it.  But I also hear guys say, "I didn't feel like cleaning my rifle" for not coming.

[Old Salt]

Hey Roger,

I have three excuses for not attending many of the woodswalks this winter. 

The main one is Grant's basketball schedule which has most of his games on Sunday.  We've been shooting ML regularly but only at the Doyelstown club after his basketball games.

Second gas prices have reduced my incentive to drive moderate distances for a shooting event.

Third I was just plain lazy this winter and slept in a few times when I should have attended Topton or Boyertown.  Now that the weather is warming up I might make a trip out to your shoot or over to Blue Mountain.

     

[roundball]

Probably a multitude of things, but gas prices could be a bigger one than in times past.
I've been looking at it with turkey season coming up in a month...I usually make a few 60 mile round trips during the 10 days before the season to try and locate / pattern / roost some birds.
If I do that at all this year it'll probably only be 1-2 times in early April...but mostly when the season opens I'll just be going and rolling the dice

[LH]

We're dying off.  For a variety of reasons, there are'nt nearly as many young shooters coming along to replace the old one's.

[Daryl]

How much can gas be that's holding people back from shooting? We're paying $5.85 per Imperial gallon - that's $4.68 per US gallon.

We still get everyone out who normally shows - but then, we're not adverse to cleaning a rifle the day or day after shooting it.  Yeah - I'm lazy and it hasn't hurt nor rusted a single barrel of mine yet.  If you clean it thoroughly, it's amazing what you can get away with, actually.
OOPS - dang decimals

Just got back from the bank - had to take out a loan to put gasoline in today - gone up to $1.33/9 per liter for regular, $1.49/9 per liter for 94 octaine high test. That's $6.08 for an Imperial gallon, $4.86 for a US gallon for regular and $6.81 and $5.44 for high test.

I just put in $100.00 worth of the 'cheap gas' and received 3/4 tank.

Getting expensive for sure.  

[Swampwalker]

Ah, Daryl, you may have shuffled decimal places a bit.

[roundball]

Or he has a 100 gallon tank...LOL

[Harnic]

We're paying $585.21 per Imperial gallon - that's $468.16 per US gallon.

WOW!  I'm not coming to PG this summer after all!  You guys are really getting burned at the pump!

[Daryl]

4.54 liters per IMP gallon, X .8 for a US gallon. 160 vs. 128 ounces.

[Kermit]

I read recently that a surprisingly large percentage of people surveyed said they'd like to try shooting. Something like +/- half of those surveyed. So! When was the last time you invited a non-shooting friend to join in the fun? I'm not talking an invite to some formal shoot or even a club gathering. Those can be intimidating. I'm talking just the two of you going out to the range with a .22 and maybe a muzzleloader thrown in for grins. Fun targets. I've found it hard to be accepted at a couple of clubs I've tried. I'll tell ya, if I show up at a club/shoot as a stranger and I have to force myself into the group, I'm disinclined to return. It's happened. I've even showed up at my local rod and gun club on a weekday to use the range, found a couple of guys shooting on the line, and they look at me as if I'm intruding on their space. I just smile and get down to shooting. We shooters are NOT an inconvenience to one another. We're essential. I hate shooting cliques.

I was prez of a club for a few years running, and a joke was made annually when they would nominate and elect by unanimous acclimation, and I'd be doing it again. I made it a point to greet new faces every time. In that period, our club tripled its membership. I've moved away, and when I visit, it's a handful of old guys who sit around talking and eating, often not shooting.

Something needs to change. I've found shooters can be a suspicious and unfriendly bunch at times. Not YOU, of course.

[Tom Cooper]

Club Politics = fun sucker, joy kill, etc.

[bgf]

Kermit,
Amen.  I started shooting MLers because an older guy at the (regular) rifle range and I started talking about it, and he got me interested enough to put together a kit and running with a caplock pretty quick.  Later, when I tried flint (switched? I have to admit, I can't seem to go back much) several people at my club and online helped with getting things going smoothly.  I like to think that I would have stuck with it anyway, but I have to wonder how it would have gone if the first person I'd met had been the one who immediately browbeat me gratuitously about his "custom" rifle and how long he'd been shooting with such and such, blah, blah, blah.  I look up to older muzzleloaders almost universally, but with a few, I'd like to say "Let's have this conversation in 20 years" .

[Michigan Flinter]

 I belong to a club "Looking Glass Longrifles" just west of Lansing Mich. we have 27 members and shoot the first Sunday of the month. It costs $50.00 per year (after the first year which is $25.00) and we get around 23 shooters each month. A couple of members host the shoot and it can be woodswalk of paper punching it's their choice. The first place shooter gets three big beads and second two and third one then everyone gets a small bead. Then there is a drawing for one prize which is worth around $4o.oo - $50.00 .We pay $5.00 each month and that money pays for the food and it costs $1,00 for an adult breverage after the guns are put away. Some of us drive sixty miles to get there and I tell you I belong to another club closer to home and all we do is work when there is a shoot on and can't take part in the fun. There are a few yonger shooters in the club but most of us are getting pretty gray on top.

[Kermit]

Okay, heresy risk. I am returning more and more to .22 rimfire because it's fun AND it's a great way to introduce new shooters. Low noise, low recoil, relatively cheap. I introduce with a Contender carbine and my BSA Martinis. "Reactive" targets. Shoot from a bench with a rest. Airguns might be good too, but I haven't tried those. Then sometimes I just happen to drag along a muzzleloader...

I got a couple of co-worker friends shooting .22 years ago by going to the range with .22s and saltine crackers to shoot at. We became known as the "Sporting Crackers." Both of those guys are still shooting. Sadly, no muzzleloaders--yet.

Instead of worrying about a dying sport, invite someone to shoot, dang it! The worst that can happen is they say no. I'm heartily tired of the whining.

[Daryl]

Was in the bank today, talking with the financial planner's assistant who actually does all the work and straightens out what he managed to mix up - some.  She is interested in learning about firearms and learning to shoot as well as wanting her son to learn with her.  Her husband used to hunt,but lost interest in hunting and shooting - nice gal.  Taylor and I will set something up with her, her son and her husband if he want's to join us, come nice weather - right now the shooting line on the big range up the hill has 4 to 6" of ice on the walking areas between and around the benches - quite treacherous footing right now.

[Dogshirt]

My small bore competition team is 6 shooters, and at 58, I'm the youngest member. I blame the
"guns are bad" mind set of society. Tried to do a demo at the local high school and we were told they "would have to call the SWAT team if we brought guns on school property"! How the $#*! can
you fight that sort of mindset?

[Canute Rex]

I would say "all of the above" plus a few other things.
 
I agree that he sport is aging. I see a few young people getting involved, but not many. The number of shooters I see in their twenties, or even thirties, is minimal.

Not only is gas pricey, but muzzleloading is time consuming, like anything that requires practice. People are working so hard these days just to make ends meet that spare time is at a premium.

This is totally spitballing, but I also think that people are developing a different attitude towards dirt and inconvenience. Shooting black powder firearms is inconvenient, tinkery, and gets shmutz on your hands and clothing. Fewer people do hands on dirty work these days, and aren't used to that. A lot of people, especially young people, seem very familiar with computers and electronics but intimidated by craft work and mechanics.

Mostly I have experienced a welcoming attitude from muzzleloading folks, but I have run into the insider's club here and there. Luckily I had those experiences after I was well into the sport, but a newcomer might get discouraged if he didn't have the perspective of years.

One other related point, and a moderator can nail me for this if necessary. I realize that this might open a can of toxic saber toothed worms, so apologies in advance. Any shooter (like myself) with political views to the left of center had better be prepared at a shoot to self-edit his conversation and also be prepared to occasionally laugh off being described (without the speaker realizing the offense) in unflattering terms. I also ran into this in reenacting. It's not constant, or even common, but it happens often enough that I consider it. I tend to give a philosophical shrug and get on with enjoying some remote control gong ringing, but I can imagine a lot of people deciding that they were not really welcome.

I'm not saying this as a condemnation, just as an explanation - we black powder shooters are a subset of a subset  of an aging demographic set (mostly) of a political demographic (almost entirely), and that means a limited group of potential participants. Again, I don't mean to condemn - it's just how things are.

That said, I think that a lot of people are just maxed out on work and kids, with no spare cash. I think that most people don't even realize that we exist, which makes it hard to recruit new participants.

I keep trying to infect people with black powder disease. I have brought out the flintlock and given people an opportunity at weekend barbecues and invited friends along to events, but it's hard to get it to catch. I'll keep trying.

[Daryl]

I hear you Rex - out local Sunday group is aging - most are retired or almost so - only one young couple wo are regulars. At Rendezvous BC, we're luckier- quite a number of younger families with little kids, juniors and cubs who also shoot or are yet too young to shoot.

This coming Rendezvous will be interesting, numbers wise. Every year for the last 7, the youngster numbers have set new records inattendence.

I had hoped this was a country wide trend,but probably not.

[heelerau]

I joined the Adelaide Blackpowder club in 1974, left Adelaide for Western Australia in 1990, if I went back to
South Australia and rejoined the club I would still be the youngest member and am now 51 ! so I suspect it may be a global problem with aging blackpowder sport.
    My stepdaught  got taught how to use my late fathers Leman rifle in .36, she in fact only knows how to use a muzzelloader, what I will do  is when she presents us with grandchildren willstart them off at the age of 5 with blackpowder. My motherinlaw who is a retired teacher informs me " give her a child under the age of 10 and she will set them for life> so here is hoping, just have to live longenough for the younuns to come. 
  I guess we have to try small first, any younguns that shew even the slightest interest even if not kinfolk we should encourage.  On a up note shooting sports here in Australia are on the increase inspite of our restrictive regs, even though this is with the modern brass manglers.

Cheers all

Gordon

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I deleted FL-Flintlock's and Roger's posts. This is not a political forum. Unfortunately political rhetoric and positioning is ruining many activities which are fun and edifying. We don't care what your political persuasion is on this site as long as you don't try to promote it here. It is exclusionary and that is not our intent for this site.

[Scout]

This is totally spitballing, but I also think that people are developing a different attitude towards dirt and inconvenience. Shooting black powder firearms is inconvenient, tinkery, and gets shmutz on your hands and clothing. Fewer people do hands on dirty work these days, and aren't used to that. A lot of people, especially young people, seem very familiar with computers and electronics but intimidated by craft work and mechanics.

We black powder shooters are a subset of a subset  of an aging demographic set (mostly) of a political demographic (almost entirely), and that means a limited group of potential participants. Again, I don't mean to condemn - it's just how things are.

That said, I think that a lot of people are just maxed out on work and kids, with no spare cash. I think that most people don't even realize that we exist, which makes it hard to recruit new participants.

I keep trying to infect people with black powder disease. I have brought out the flintlock and given people an opportunity at weekend barbecues and invited friends along to events, but it's hard to get it to catch. I'll keep trying.

I agree, I remember when the local club I belong to had rifle matches every month , centerfire, BP, rimfire, bullseye, poker, etc. We would avereage 20+ shooters each time ( small club ). Now less than 10 show up and the BP is just about ALL inline scoped rifles. I'm the odd ball with my flint and cap rifles. I get the usual "thats outdated, too much cleanup, etc" comments from the non-believers.  My own son has zero interest in BP or history for that matter, online gaming, computers etc are his life. I wish we had more BP folks here with the woods walk shoots and all the interesting events you folks have up north.

Sometimes I feel like I was born a bit late for the interests I have.

[FL-Flintlock]

Any shooter (like myself) with political views to the left of center

I knew the truth couldn't possibly be acceptable so I'll just leave it at...

As you sow, so shall you reap.

[alsask]

I admire PA and their flintlock only season.  Here we have a primative season but inlines are allowed which to me seems to be a modern single shot rifle that happens to load from the muzzle.

If more places went to flintlock or a sidelock only hunting season using patched round ball the black powder interest would really take off.  I use flintlocks in the regular rifle season just because I enjoy them.

[54ball]

 I have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to shooting clubs.
 Let me share my experience.

  There is no finer man alive than my father, at least that I know of.  We were interested in joining the local shooting club so one Saturday we brought our .22s to an open shoot.  As suggested.  We were excited about the prospect of joining this "club".  My father had invited myself as well as my brother to attend.  I was 30 my brother was 26, again, this was an open shoot.
  The vice president was a man my father knew as a child from years past.  He introduced us to this fellow and explained the connection.  This guy was a kid that used hang around my grandfather's mechanic shop in 1960.  The guy was nice but had an aire about him.  "To become a member you must come to a club meeting.  You also need a reference from a present member.  It should be no problem to get a reference once you come to a meeting.

  No one knew when the next meeting was.  My father talked to three different people.  Same spill but still no one knew when the next meeting was.  Emails and phone #s were exchanged with the "We'll let you know.

  My brother and I were embarrased for him.  To see him treated that way.  I at the time was a captain at the local fire department so I knew of some folks who were past members. None had to kiss that much tail.  None would have been better members.

  When I see the sport is dying comments I think about our experience.  Frankly I wonder if the same folks who whine about the status of the sport are also the same ones who do not know when the meeting is?