Author Topic: prospective new lock from Bob Roller (Read 13965 times)

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **on:** March 18, 2012, 02:41:00 AM »

Taylor. Can I prevail on you again to put these pictures on ALR?? It is my version of a Ketland lock made by modifying the plate and to a small extent,the cock of the old Chet Shoults lock from 1956. This little lock measures 4.5 inches by almost 15/16ths. It is FAST and slams the sparks into the pan.
It will be in the $200-$210 price range if I decide to do it.

Bob

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #1 on:** March 18, 2012, 03:07:04 AM »

Certainly looks like 1956.

T*O*F · « **Reply #2 on:** March 18, 2012, 04:15:59 AM »

I have one of these locks that Bob made for me a couple of years ago. You can see it in operation on Pletch's website. It's in the Kanger group. It's quite fast.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #3 on:** March 18, 2012, 05:28:41 AM »

Looks like 1956? Meaning what,the attention to detail,style or???

Bob Roller

okieboy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2012, 05:43:53 AM »

Really like the lock and its size. Like the way the cock puts the flint starting its strike high on the frizzen.
When you make a lock like this, does it start with a plate casting or bar stock?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2012, 06:09:31 AM »

The plate,cock and frizzen are all castings from precision milled and polished cavity dies that were made in 1955. The lock was made popular by Chet Shoults of Lapeer,Michigan. He relenquished control of the dies in 1962 due to ill health and I have been making it off and on since then. It is now a "public domain" lock and anyone can get these castings from Jerry Devaudreuil in Wooster,Ohio. He now owns these dies long with a LOT of others for different locks etc.

Bob Roller

Old Salt · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2012, 07:03:40 PM »

Is the lower picture of the lock at full or half cock?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2012, 08:14:45 PM »

It is at full cock and has a strong but limber mainspring so it is a fast lock. The pan area is enlarged as was the original Ketland so in the event of a weak spark,it will probably fire anyway.
As the plate is cast,it has a witnessed area for the pan and it can be made into several configurations. Chet Shoults used to make it into a semi "rainproof" pan on special order.
I have a plate with a blemished area that I plan make into a caplock that looks like a converted flintlock. I used to get requests for these from time to time and thought I might use this plate.

Bob Roller

T*O*F · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:13:30 PM »

Quote

Could you please give us some dimensions on your lock?

Read the first post. Dimensions are given there.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:28:40 PM »

It is smaller than Jim's Ketland. Mine is 4-1/2x.920. There is version of the Ketland that is not like Jim's or mine and it is available as external parts from Jerry Devaudreuil in Wooster,Ohio. He has no E mail but his phone is 1-330-234-4500,a cell phone. I have made a number of these in years past and they are a lock either for a lucky beginner or someone like myself with years of experience at lock MAKING.
I am by no means certain about making this lock and I figure the price will be the put off.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:34:35 PM »

Following up on my note of 2 minutes ago,the Ketland I just mentioned HAS a double throated hammer and a heavy frizzen that can have a roller installed if care is taken. I used one of these made from parts that laid in a drawer for 35 years on my 58 caliber flintlock rifle. I have one set that I must or should make a lock from for a gunmaker in Pa. It is a $250 lock due to the time it takes to make it. Time DOES apply to muzzle loader parts whether anyone knows it or not.

Bob Roller

rich pierce · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:46:30 PM »

Probably target shooters would want something like that one. The 1820's rifles are not real popular among those who like rifles built close to originals. It's just not as popular an era as the Revolutionary War period and even earlier, or the early post-war Golden Age. The knurled top jaw screw looks modern and a little out of place, but target shooters might find that feature handy.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2012, 11:44:36 PM »

The Shoults lock this is based on doesn't look like my modification of it and I have sold a lot of them here and in Europe. They are used on some Southern style rifles like the "poor boy" and the one Taylor posted would make a dandy pistol lock because of the speed and size.
I am not interested in mass production of any lock and popularity was never a factor in what I make. If someone wants a lock like this and is willing to pay for the time it takes to make it,that's fine and if not,that's fine too.
As I have posted earlier,I am taking no lock or any other work until I get results from a CT scan on the 23rd of this month. If they are negative,I probably will make a few locks and if not,I'm done with the shop work.
The 1820's rifles ARE close to the originals because they too are originals in their own right.

Bob Roller

bgf · « **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2012, 12:21:38 AM »

Bob,
That is just as it should be -- if everyone rushed off the cliff of the latest fashion trend (which is now RCA Vol. I, more or less), there would be much work necessary when the fad changes again as it will. I think it is quite ridiculous to have so many options for Jaeger and early Germanic locks (mainly because it is easy), and so very few for later English styles. History did not stop in the 1790's; it did not start in Pennsylvania. I wish you good luck with your scan, and I hope someday to get a Late English (Manton-Ashmore) Roller with all the bells and whistles, but you had better look after your health, because I am cheap so it might be a while

.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:18:30 PM »

As I have said before,my real interest in muzzle loading rifles is in the "Thousand yard specials" that became obsolete by the time they started
working right. I admire the craftsmanship of these pre-revolutionary war rifles and they are an unchallengeable venue for highly skilled and talented artisans of today to show what they can do. I get inquiries from time to time asking about my Germanic styled locks and my answer is,"I have ever made them,don't plan to and the market is overloaded without me adding to it".
The little Manton style locks are pretty but a hard one to get a decent mechanism into and I quit them last year. I am slowing down and will perhaps do four or five locks a month IF there is even that much demand for what I make.

Bob Roller

JB2 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2012, 05:16:38 PM »

Wishing you well on your upcoming tests too, Mr. Roller. Not trying to put any pressure, but have you ever done any southpaw locks? Us lefties only have a few choices, but I think the one just posted would be a dandy in left hand.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2012, 10:45:30 PM »

Left handed locks? I have made them but not recently. The one Taylor posted is a much changed Chet Shoults lock and never was made in left hand versions. If the results of next Friday's tests are negative,I may see if I can come up with a suitable mechanism for the L&R Manton. I have made these before but never was satisfied with them.If the tests are positive then I will pull the plug on all shop work.

Bob Roller

T*O*F · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:44:26 PM »

Bob,
On a more positive note, my Dad was a tool and die maker and had prostate cancer. It was the slow growing kind and the doctor told him he would die of other causes before the cancer killed him. The doctor was right and he lived into his mid 80's before succoming to dementia complications. He never received any type of treatment for it. However, there is a fast growing variety too.

For men, it's not IF you will get prostate cancer, but WHEN if you live long enough.

pake · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:28:13 AM »

Bob,

I wish you all the best as you " travel this road". Seven years ago, when I was 57, I was told that I had an aggressive prostate cancer. My personality being what it is wanted to "do something right away". The Dr said, "You are going to become a student of this disease so that we can do what is right for you". He was right, and I did, but the process was all consuming for awhile. I learned to embrace the disease as part of me. Seven years later I believe that I am cancer free, but not without a few lifestyle modifications.

Bottom line though is that it sure has altered my view of things, in a good way. One of the richest, most meaningful experiences of my life which I wouldn't trade in spite of the outcome.

I truly wish you all the best.
Respectfully

pake

longcruise · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:34:53 AM »

Bob, hope the tests are in your favor!

I'm probably not a player on one of those locks right now, but I think you can sell them as fast as you make them at your proposed price line.

dagner · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:59:23 AM »

mr roller
saw the new style 2 flintlocks you made up for doug scott a while back . they are real sweet.
dag

Bob Roller · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2012, 06:46:12 AM »

Dag,
Many thanks for the compliments on the Twiggs I made for Doug. These locks are my idea for a modern day shooter. We will see how they work out.
Pake,
I think the CT scan is precautionary but we shall see. This doctor is an Oncologist as well as a Urologist. I certainly thank you for the words of encouragement if I am loaded for bear. I have been plagued with BPH for 38 years and I will be 76 on the 27th of this month. and have had regular check ups every six months for years and two biopsies with no cancer found.Also had microwave therapy in 2007. The most recent exam found no nodules but enlargement. I feel good and have none of the symptoms of BPH such as bleeding and getting up five or six times at night. We will see what is lurking,if anything.
Thanks again for your input and I welcome it and all the words from the others on this forum.

Bob Roller

dagner · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2012, 07:55:10 AM »

bob -had same problem getting up 5 times a night .doctor told me about the puppy treatment no liquids after 6 and keep cafiene and way booze way down. down to 2 a night not fun but worked doug has a great collection of your flint and cap locks going back over 20 years,have a great time playing with them.use your cap in my offhand target gun.you plain make some of the finest locks made. keep up the good work
dag

pathfinder · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2012, 06:04:30 PM »

Bob,I wish you luck in the coming day's! When you get the all clear,I definitely want 1 or 2 of your lock's!

Bob Roller · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2012, 08:32:46 PM »

Pathfinder,
What type of locks do you want?? I haven't heard from the radiologists yet or the doctor.
I don't know if they call me or use the U.S.Mule.
They don't have my E mail (I don't think).
Anyhow,let me know what kind of locks and thanks for the note.

Bob Roller

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Author Topic: prospective new lock from Bob Roller (Read 13965 times)

Old Salt

JB2

pake

dagner

dagner