Opinions on the best stock finishs

[Mesingw]

Good evening, I don't mean to open a can of worms but here goes. I have been all over the web reading about  various stock finishes to use. Ex. BLO, Tru oil, Tung oil, etc. My question is,  what seems to work the best, dries and can be reapplied the quickest, and in what ratios should they be cut and with what if doing so. And what type of visual affects do they present, gloss, satin etc.  What should I be after for say a 1770 Beck and a 1763 Charleyville, my current projects?
I am redoing the musket I built 20+ years ago and 0000 steel wooled her down and put on a new coat of BLO and it is taking forever to dry up. I wiped it down twice so far and have it hanging from a floor joist below a furnace vent in a very dry cellar and it is taking a lot longer than I want to remember. Maybe I've grown very impatient or can my oil be too old ? Any help/advise here guys would greatly be appreciated. Thanks

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Well I am very biased as I don't have the place nor patience to go get beal BLO and cook my own.  That being said, I really like Jim Chambers antigue oil finish. I understand it includes a mix of 18th century ingredients. It dries over night, seals well and can be put on in thin hand rubbed layers rubed into the wood . If it is shinier than you like, simply rub the final coat back lightly with rottenstone.  I would never put hardware store stuff on my guns.

[Dennis Glazener]

I really like Jim Chambers antigue oil finish

I agree with Tim, its my favorite. I used Permylyn thinner on a couple and it worked well but I had more trouble getting it on evenly than with Jim's oil finish.
Dennis

[Swampwalker]

This has been discussed many times before at great length - do a search.  That being said, I favor oil-based varnishes, which can be readily thinned for a seal coat, or for hand rubbing, etc.  Be vary careful about applying a second coat of any finish before the first is dry - the second coat will never fully dry, and will always feel tacky.  BLO by itself is not a very good finish, in my opinion.

[satwel]

I used Lin Speed on the first couple of rifles I built with good results. It is easy to apply-- by hand rubbing a drop at a time--gives a lot of control and it dries pretty quickly. In other words, it's reasonably fool-proof.

http://www.lin-speed.com/

I have since switched to a homemade beeswax, linseed oil, turpentine mixture that produces a more satin finish.

[Keb]

...I would never put hardware store stuff on my guns...

Come on. You are putting "hardware" stuff on your guns. That is unless you are making your own product from natural ingredients. I'd bet the Chambers oil stuff is just a mixture of some of the same stuff that's in finish oils bought at WalMart.

[Roger Fisher]

You wondered about what is 'best' I can't say what is best; but I swim upstream most of the time anyhow!  In my case I apply woodlife in the mortise Lock and endgraiin and barrel channel and 'try' to apply sparingly so it doesn't bleed through.  Then apply thin coats rub,rub,rub of olde tyme BLO with lead simply because thats what I have. Not the best water protection; but scratches can be easily repaired hidden.   This past winter I got antsy and stood her behind the woodstove to dry better...It worked and no heat damage.   

[curly]

John Bivins in an article in 1984 Muzzle Blast Magizine used and marketed (under his trade mark) a urethane product produced by and sold under the name Laurel Mountain Forge as his finish of choice. He turned his label over to another, who markets the same product under the name "Express Oil" and "Express Filler". I myself use a urethane based filler and oil that is about the best you can get for moisture prevention and abrasion durability.
Curly

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

...I would never put hardware store stuff on my guns...

Come on. You are putting "hardware" stuff on your guns. That is unless you are making your own product from natural ingredients. I'd bet the Chambers oil stuff is just a mixture of some of the same stuff that's in finish oils bought at WalMart.

Well he says there are no plastics in it. It is a medium oil varnish... rumor has it som unique concoction of Pure BLO, Tung oil and dryers..all vegetable oils. no plastic and no petroleum.  In any event it works well for me and dries well. seems to hold up well on my older guns.

[Dave Faletti]

I use BLO thinned with turpentine to fill the wood.  A couple of thin coats of Tru Oil on top.  It does take a long time.  From letting the stain dry to final top coats took from last fall til now out in the garage.  Summer weather closer to two months.

I have some of Jims finish but haven't tried it for some reason.  This summer I plan on trying a few different things on scraps to see how far the finish gets in the wood and whatever other abuse I can think of to try that I wouldn't test on  a rifle.

[JDK]

It does take a long time.  From letting the stain dry to final top coats took from last fall til now out in the garage.  Summer weather closer to two months.

There is no way I could wait that long to put a gun into service!  Our ancestors must not have done it this way as we would have lost the Revolution at that rate.   J.D.

[bob in the woods]

Read the archives, re Dan Phariss posts on oil finishes. His directions are excellent.  You can make your own, and it doesn't take forever to dry.  Instead of hanging your stock in the rafters near heat, I'd out it out in the sunlight.  Lately, I have been using Tried and True Varnish oil. Applied very sparingly, in thin layers.  But I still prefer to make my own.  If all else fails, Truoil , rubbed back has worked for me too.  I just don't like to use it anymore because of the fumes.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I definitely agree. If you want to make your own read what Dan has to say about making BLO finishes.  He really needs to write a small book on the topic!!

[kutter]

I've never been a fan of finishes that take days and weeks to dry.

The last couple I did were with Permalyn (sp?) sealer only. Applied with a small cloth patch it goes on very smoothly. Not so much so with just the fingers.
On top of 3 coats of that which doesn't build up on the surface,, a top coating or two of artist's drying oil which is nothing but a linseed with a dryer in it. That dries in a day for each coat.

Water proof or as about as good as you can make it and a rub down with a couple drops of the oil every once in a while makes it look good again.

I suspect some early guns were finished in shellac or other such tinted varnishes and have worn away over the years. Use, wear and oil & grease have given them the dull oil finished look now.

Tru-oil,,,I gave up on that stuff in the 70's. Just couldn't get it to dry. Ever.
Never had the right look anyway to my eyes on others guns that were successfully finished with it. Maybe I was just jealous.

[Mesingw]

Thank you guys.
I had a feeling I get a good response. All valid comments and greatly appreciated. I guess I'm looking for fuzz more gloss than satin but not real glossy. I would like it to be deep too if that is possible. I've used BLO in the past and it doesn't really blow my skirt up in the air if you know what I mean and am looking to make a change. I want to hopefully get the best right out of the gate with out a lot of experimentation. I tried a couple test strips with some Tung oil I got last night. Good penetration and drying but those fumes a wicked.
What's your thoughts on rubbing the BLO off one more time and when it gets dry (if ever) put a couple coats of the Tung oil over it.
I also have some Laurel Mountain Forge stain and a 2 part sealer kit but have not tried it as of yet. I guess it's about time. Wish I had more curly maple scraps to test on before I go at my Beck as it is still raw and about ready.
Thanks again
Dave

[Robby]

Has anyone ever scraped off some original finish and had it analyzed? Ive experimented with a few variations of recipes that Dan has provided here. It was fun, but I have come to the conclusion that chemistry is not my strong suit. One thing I think I found is that when they dry, they all have a very high gloss, but it seems like a different high gloss then modern finishes. Hard to explain but they seem to be a soft hard gloss rather than a plastic, hard gloss. I really think when these guns left the shop they were shiny, providing a varnish was used, and quickly dulled down  with normal cleaning and handling, due to the softer nature of the finish. I was looking for something that would protect the wood, but also reproduced that "look" that all the modern finishes don't seem to get, close but no cigar. I don't know how to explain that 'look' but like one Supreme Court judge said, "I know it when I see it". Lately I have been using this product:
"Sutherland & Welles Ltd, make a tung oil based, high quality, "natural", earth friendly, spar varnish". www.sutherlandwelles.com/gallery/marine-spar-varnish/
So far I'm pretty happy with the results. Hope this made sense, I seem to be in some sort of ramble.
Robby

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Spar Varnish is an interesting alternative, especially if made traditionally without urethance. As on a boat it is easy to patch, refinish etc. If you are making a NE gun, who knows, it might even be PC???     I like it for lots of things around home.

[Jim Kibler]

Thank you guys.
I had a feeling I get a good response. All valid comments and greatly appreciated. I guess I'm looking for fuzz more gloss than satin but not real glossy. I would like it to be deep too if that is possible. I've used BLO in the past and it doesn't really blow my skirt up in the air if you know what I mean and am looking to make a change. I want to hopefully get the best right out of the gate with out a lot of experimentation. I tried a couple test strips with some Tung oil I got last night. Good penetration and drying but those fumes a wicked.
What's your thoughts on rubbing the BLO off one more time and when it gets dry (if ever) put a couple coats of the Tung oil over it.
I also have some Laurel Mountain Forge stain and a 2 part sealer kit but have not tried it as of yet. I guess it's about time. Wish I had more curly maple scraps to test on before I go at my Beck as it is still raw and about ready.
Thanks again
Dave

Not sure if anybody has specifically mentioned it in this thread, but I would suggest putting your linseed finished stock in good direct sun.  The difference this makes in drying is remarkable.

Jim

[Eric Kettenburg]

"Has anyone ever scraped off some original finish and had it analyzed?"

Yes, on a number of pieces over a number of years now.  Will be publishing at some point, although not sure when.

"Not sure if anybody has specifically mentioned it in this thread, but I would suggest putting your linseed finished stock in good direct sun.  The difference this makes in drying is remarkable."

UV light is a catalyst.  I'll second this wholeheartedly - it is CRUCIAL that any finish w. a linseed oil base be exposed to ample sunlight.  Not heat, although that can help to a small degree, but sunlight.

[Dennis Glazener]

Not sure if anybody has specifically mentioned it in this thread, but I would suggest putting your linseed finished stock in good direct sun.  The difference this makes in drying is remarkable.

Jim

Yes the sun helps but I added a couple of drops of Japan Dryer to the last batch of BLO/turpentine/lead oxide that I mixed up. Guess I didn't have enough lead oxide in it because I could not get it to dry. After I added the Japan Dryer it dried overnight and I could not tell that it affected the finish. Just ain't crazy on cooking the concoction for several hours.
Dennis

[bgf]

Minwax Antique Oil Finish is Linseed Oil with driers and thinner -- no resins except perhaps the oil is polymerized by heat?  I had it drying fast enough to recoat (thinly) in 4 hours, although it recommends overnight.  It is a light varnish, not too hard or too glossy but pretty tough, and you can either apply it thin (rubbed on) as directed or slap it on thick to build quickly (just make sure it is dry before rubbing back and recoating).  I mixed in a little spar varnish for the UV protection and some tinted polyurethane I like for the color, but it would be good by itself.  Anyone else ever try it?  The Antique Oil Finish seems to get good reviews for looks and water resistance (better than Waterlox if I remember correctly) in the research I did.

[alsask]

For me, Minwax Antique Oil finish seems to give the most consistant results.

The only negative is that it is quite glossy for a hunting rifle finish but you can knock it down with fine steel wool after.  When using it I pay just as much attention to the barrel channel and any other hidden areas to ensure a good seal.
It seems very impervious to weather.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

For me, Minwax Antique Oil finish seems to give the most consistant results.

The only negative is that it is quite glossy for a hunting rifle finish but you can knock it down with fine steel wool after.  When using it I pay just as much attention to the barrel channel and any other hidden areas to ensure a good seal.
It seems very impervious to weather.

I used it on a rifle years ago. I also refinished a table with it about the same time. I thought it looked great when it was new but it didn't hold up well in my opinion. I haven't been able to find it very easily lately, But then I haven't really looked for it.  They may have changed it since I used it, you mention "shiney" when I used it it was an almost matte finish, and I thought it was a Tung oil formula.

My favorite for rifles is Chambers Traditional Oil finish. I really like this finish. I usually apply a sealer coat with a brush all over including cavities, then about 6 or 7 coats finger applied (exterior surface only) and the last couple of coats rubbed very lightly with 0000 steel wool to dull the shine a little. Then I add a final application of Renaissance Wax which brings everything to an even sheen.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

What Micah said.... you wil like it 

[v308]

I'm glad to see some brand names and additional information about the finishes being used. In my experience the MOST frustrating aspect of oil finishes is the nearly total lack of information about what we're actually buying. I've seen "100 % Tung Oil" that was thin and clear as kerosene, and "100 % Tung Oil" that could pass for maple syrup, different brand names of course. OK, so, which is 100% pure tung oil??? The manufactures are not required to list ingredients on the cans - we're just expected to take their word for what's inside, & most ain't all that honest! I remember using store bought BLO which dried in a day (25 years ago), but the last few cans I've tried wouldn't dry in a month (& don't smell the same)? Recently I asked the store manager in a large woodworker's specialty store for tung oil, after a lengthy discussion with the other employees they decided that nearly ALL of the 'oil' finishes had some tung oil in them (Teak, Danish, etc.) Hummmmm, ok,?  I've also learned to be careful about labels like 'tung oil finish' hint, it's Not tung oil!, what is it actually? heck if I know!
Lin-speed (linseed oil based, with additives), Teak oil (has nothing to do with teak trees), Tru-oil (it doesn't behave like an oil), and the Laurel Mountain finishes will all result in a pretty high gloss. Tung oil will not.