Author Topic: Hand Forged Axe  (Read 7699 times)

Offline Shreckmeister

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Hand Forged Axe
« on: April 08, 2012, 02:20:44 AM »
I came across this hand axe in an antique shop.  Now I may be getting excited as a result of my lack of experience, but this looks right to me for an early piece.  Everything on it seems honest.  It has a makers mark that I can't make out because it is pretty battered up. I found it in Punxsutawney PA which sits nearby the Shamokin Path.  There are linear marks in the  handle where it looks like tacks were removed. Blade to spike is 8 1/4", Blade is 3 1/4" wide, Haft is 18 1/2".




« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 08:04:23 PM by Suzkat (Rob) »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline George Sutton

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 03:27:12 AM »
Looks good, but who knows???

Centershot

KennyC

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2012, 05:50:31 AM »
can't tell you anything except I like it

Black Hand

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2012, 05:03:31 PM »
Interesting piece but it looks more modern (though I am by no means an expert on axes). The visible seam,the lack of an inserted steel bit and the shape of the head makes me wonder. 

Offline Howard

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 06:23:37 PM »
I'm not sure but it could be a tobacco cutter. They are still used for harvesting the stocks. I have owned several in the past. They are a almost but not quite a tomahawk. Can't tell without seeing it in the flesh.

Offline JDK

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »
Tobacco cutter is what popped into my head first also.  Lived in Virginia for over 10 years and have seen pieces similar to this touted as that at sales.  J.D.
J.D. Kerstetter

Offline LRB

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 12:17:08 AM »
  I'd say poorly done, but looks to me like there may be a steel cutting bit in it. The seam appears to stop abruptly on that back side shot, but that does not mean it is old.

The other DWS

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 12:32:42 AM »
I'd guess a local blacksmith-made tobacco cutter/cornstalk-chopper also.
   

It just doesn't have the right form for a historical trade axe/hatchet/"tomahawk"

 Of course I've also seen a fair amount of old and very odd home-made stuff created for old Boy Scout and summer camp "Indian Lore" programs show up at the museum that purported to be old fur-trade era stuff from the local trading-post/"fort" site.  Unfortunately I had to do a lot of wishful-thinking bubble-busting for local collectors and antique dealers.  fortunately we had a real good reference collection of the 'real stuff" we could show for comparison; which helped defuse things a lot.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 12:24:51 AM »
Not knowing where else to go for comparison, I went to Google images and searched under vintage
tobacco cutter, tobacco chopper, tobacco hatchet, cornstalk chopper etc and can't find an example even
similar to this implement.  Can you provide an image for comparison?
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline C Wallingford

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 02:22:52 AM »
I have used a tobacco cutter and that one is too heavy. Blades were normally made from an old saw or something thin and springy. If you had to swing that one you have all day some one would have to attach a new arm for the next day's cutting.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 02:23:20 AM by C Wallingford »

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 02:29:54 AM »
I have used a tobacco cutter and that one is too heavy. Blades were normally made from an old saw or something thin and springy. If you had to swing that one you have all day some one would have to attach a new arm for the next day's cutting.

My experience in the tabacca field says ditto. Usually a 24-30" handle.

Offline bgf

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 08:18:56 AM »
Trying to remember, most tobacco knives I used were "L" shaped with the blade being the short leg but at an angle or with an angle to it, so that you could either hack the stalk or pull the knife through the stalk, something like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Primative-Long-Tobacco-Knife-from-Eastern-Kentucky-/320881980084?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item4ab60e72b4

Corn knives--if they were not the same thing as tobacco cutters--looked like machetes, but they were not pointed, usually, something like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-MACHETE-Mid-West-Corn-Knife-16-Blade-original-Wood-unmarked-7-50-ship-/160780452645?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item256f430325

I don't know how standard all this would be, but I don't think that is either thing from my experience, although tobacco knife would be my guess if I had to choose, since the tobacco stalks can be pretty thick and tough, but it is pretty heavy tool even for that as remarked above; I remember the stick of tobacco being quite heavy as well, much past noon :).  Hatchet is definitely closer to the mark, but I don't know when/where it might have been made.

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Re: Hand Forged Trade Axe
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 03:06:55 PM »
There is a pretty good body of published material on axes. hatchets and the version of them used in the "indian trade".  Most of the iron hand-axe/hatchet/"tomahawk" were functional tools for wood working/chopping splitting.  They tended to be rather wedge shaped since a thin parallel sided blade tended to get stuck in the wood.   Of course they had other functions and roles as well; including ceremonial and as weapons.
Some forms were developed to fit those roles but were derivative of the woodworkers hand axe.  there was a form, sometimes called the "missouri war hatchet", which had a thin flat parallel side blade with a large triangular shape and a very small handle socket.  then there were spike and pick versions used as naval boarding weapons, spontoon heads and pipe heads,  but all came from the wood working hand axe.
Most of the early designs used a tapered "adze-eye" socket that depended on centrifugal force and impact to keep the head tight.  the parallel sided socket with a wedge is a later development if my recollection is correct.

the tool in question does not in my opinion, fit the form of a typical historic "trade axe".  while I am sure it would make a very functional weapon. the lack of taper to the blade cross section, again in my opinion, would make it an awkward tool for wood working and the spike on the back would make it even more difficult.  the eye design makes it look later as opposed to earlier in my opinion.  Unfortunately its a lot easier to opine about what it is not than what it is.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Hand Forged Axe
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 04:07:47 PM »
I removed the "trade" from the description of this thread.  I believe the intended purpose of the
maker was the same as a trade axe's, but I think it was made by a blacksmith in the day, but does
not fit the form of a mass produced trade axe.  The head weights approx 2 lbs, but I will weigh it
and post the info.  Axe in hand, I think it is pre 1900, just from having seen many other implements
of that period.  The grain of the metal makes me think it is old.
Other than that, I think it will remain a mystery until someone comes up with another
like it.  I see no use for the spike in farming use.  A hammer would have been much more useful.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Hand Forged Axe
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 04:11:19 PM »
 Bob,
  Take a look at this site, I have not gone through it, it may be of some help. Check the links also.

   http://furtradetomahawks.tripod.com/index.html

   Tim C.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 04:13:26 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Hand Forged Axe
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 06:22:00 PM »
Tim,  That's a very good sight for reference.  Nothing there quite like it which further leads me to think
it's a one off piece and not made for trade, but for someones personal use.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.