Author Topic: Butt plate and ram rod thimbles. (Read 8432 times)

LehighBrad · « **on:** April 08, 2012, 09:02:36 PM »

This may be a dumb question....even though some say no questions are dumb. Do you leave the ram rod thimbles and butt plate on the stock when staining it and for that matter finishing it too??? I know the nose cap stays on because it's peened on for good and my trigger plate, trigger guard, side plate, and lock are easy enough to take off. And of course the barrel will be out. But does the thimbles and butt plate NEED to be taken off too? $:-\$ How do you guys go about finishing of the stock?

Vomitus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2012, 09:22:46 PM »

Mr.Brad,
I'm far from an expert on this,but if it were me,I'd take it off. You've had them on and off probably many times already so one more time...? To me, It'd be like going to the outhouse and not lowering your drawers.

Sealing the wood would be my concern,that's all. Can't wait to see your rifle complete! Cheers

Tom Currie · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2012, 11:00:29 PM »

I leave as much brass on as possible when applying any kind of sealer, or finish. Otherwise your parts will never fit quite as well as they once did.

LehighBrad · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2012, 12:25:59 AM »

That's what I was thinkin' too Tom. I figured if I remove the thimbles and butt plate neither would end up fitting quite right AFTER sealer was applied. Especially after several coats of sealer. I was even considering leaving the trigger plate in, and trigger guard pinned in too. The side plate and lock will be taken off many times over the years I'm sure. Well, at least the lock will be. I suppose the side plate can be left on also if it's inletted tight enough...yes? Anyway...I suppose you're never going to see that under the brass hardware there is no stain or sealer. But....does that matter? I mean, will those unstained and unsealed areas be alright in certain weather conditions? I seen a lot of contemporary built longrifles which are unstained and unsealed inside their patchboxs, so I always wondered if the same holds true for the areas UNDER the thimbles, trigger guards and such.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2012, 12:35:55 AM »

I leave it all on, whenever I can. I take the lock out, and barrel out. I like to seal any endgrain I can with shellac. Inside the lock mortice, barrel channel, breech, under buttplate, inside patchbox and cavity.

bgf · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2012, 01:20:47 AM »

You can stain (no buildup) and put a very thin/diluted coat or two of finish on everywhere before putting stuff back on; probably not necessary, but I like to know there is something everywhere, for those days when water pours down the barrel and into the barrel channel, for example. The BP and Patchbox, esp. need to be on when you apply finish, as they will likely not fit right later if the finish builds up, and the finish will close up many small inletting gaps for you, also.

BJH · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2012, 02:06:10 AM »

I stain with everything off the gun except the nose cap, and will apply the first coat of finish with the parts out. While the finish is still wet I reinstall the butplate and entry pipe. If the gun has a brass patchbox it goes back on now too. Every part of the stock gets a heavy coat of finish especially the end grain areas. I'll rub in as much finish as the wood will take for a little while at least. Then I'll rub off all excess so the finish is in the wood not on the surface. Then set it aside for a couple days so the finish in the wood sets properly. BJH

Vomitus · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2012, 09:05:23 AM »

I learn something every day.Thanks.

Vomitus · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2012, 06:29:14 PM »

I was thinking just a sealer like shellac. The buttstock gets put on the ground for loading so I'd think the end grain here would need some waterproofing. I understand about finish and the build up it makes so my thoughts were about sealing the wood in this area before finish is applied. I stand to be corrected,of course.Thanks.

Stophel · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2012, 06:37:16 PM »

I leave the buttplate on, but staining with the rod pipes or triggerguard on is a problem. They act as a heat sink and it's hard to get sufficient hot air in the nooks and crannies around them to turn the color of my stain. I also have to take off the rod pipes and triggerguard to finish the stock, since I can't get the finish in all the nooks and crannies again. My varnish is applied with my fingers.

I do more or less keep the finish out of the inlets, though.

I might could do an oil finish with the parts in, but cutting off the excess surface oil would be difficult around the rod pipes.

Stophel · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2012, 06:42:08 PM »

Oh, and whatever you do, you definitely want your barrel and rod pipe pins in the stock when you finish it!!!

Vomitus · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2012, 06:59:02 PM »

Chris,
I take it you use AF for stain and boiled linseed oil for finish?
Up north here we shoot year round. This is why I thought a good sealer under the buttplate would be a good idea. The butt gets set in the snow, soggy ground(spring and fall) for loading. Just can't help them from getting wet. Even with a perfect inlet and the screws done up tight,water has a habit of finding a way to migrate.

JDK · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2012, 07:50:43 PM »

My theory is, that if finishing with butt plate fit, oil finishes will still wick between plate and wood and give it a good seal. If the oil won't get in then the water won't either. J.D.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2012, 01:57:44 AM »

I agree with Chris in removing all that is possible when staining. Seal the inlets if desired and put the hardware back on as soon as possible or as the finish builds up, the stock is put in the sun to dry etc. problems with parts fitting might be encountered.

WMnBR · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2012, 02:32:09 AM »

If you apply the finish in thin coats, and don't "slop" it into the inlets, there's usually minimal scrapping needed to install the furniture. I leave everything off until the finish is done with no problems.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2012, 03:17:14 AM »

If a traditional linseed oil finish is used, sun is almost a requirement for the finish to cure. Sun can cause problems with parts fitting. Also, if any patina is to be built up during the finish process, it's best to have parts installed. A stock can be finished without parts, but I've found it to be easier with them on.

Dphariss · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2012, 03:59:26 PM »

You can't properly "seal" a stock with metal in the inlets.
Its also an excellent way to glue parts into the stock unless they are waxed.

Dan

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2012, 04:03:06 PM »

Seal if desired then install parts. Finish afterwards and no problems with parts sticking.

Dphariss · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2012, 04:40:51 PM »

Let me elaborate a little. Since I have had a couple of sips of Earl Grey...

First I do not do built up finishes on Maple or walnut nor do I patina guns. I generally finish maple in 2-3 coats including the sealer.
Second I have done a LOT of stocks with the metal in the wood AFTER putting finish in all the inlets and under the buttplate.
Maple? I put on a lot of sealer with all possible metal removed. BLO/Turp mix. Let it dry somewhat, over night maybe and then maybe another light wipe with finish then assemble. The rifle is now usable. But if more finish is needed its pretty tough to do with the TG and assembled lock installed since they cover areas in one way or another that will need finish. Finishing over pin holes that lack pins or pins that are "low" in the wood can be a bad idea if they are ever removed again. Keys are the same. So to avoid unpleasantness its best to clean the pin holes etc after sealing. A soft finish like BLO is less likely to cause problems than a hard finish like the modern varnishes, Tru-Oil etc which can and will block holes, to the point of breaking the wood and glue in parts. Like lock plates.
Yes it may be necessary to scrape some of seal coat from the inlets. This is a normal part of stock making. It may also be the reason many factory guns were/are poorly sealed. Too much trouble.
Sealing in the inlets is not to prevent moisture from entering the wood which is virtually impossible but to SLOW it so that carrying a rifle in the rain or snow does not allow the wood to suck up water like a sponge through the end grain at the forend/barrel breech/butt areas. Or when cleaning the gun.

Dan

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2012, 05:29:33 PM »

Earl Grey is pretty good stuff. Just a cup of English Brekfast tea for me at the moment. Have you tried Lapsang Souchang? Ian turned me on to it. Good stuff.

Anyways, back to finishing.... I uaually seal inlets, but can understand those who choose not to from a historical standpoint.

As to getting oil everywhere when parts are installed, I usually just put a few dots of oil here and there and then use a combination of my hands and a soft 1-2" brush to spread and thin things out. Using the brush, even areas such as under the guard can be accessed. I've not had any problems with parts sticking or finsh chipping / pealing when parts are removed. Like I mentioned, I always darken around parts / carving etc. to some degree and parts really need to be in place to accomplish this. I've finshed stocks without parts too, but just find the other method to be easier. What works for some doesn't necessarily work for others though. Enough said.

Jim

LehighBrad · « **Reply #20 on:** April 22, 2012, 05:46:07 PM »

Great info!!! I'm soaking it all in.....just like a stock...

I'm ready to inlet my cheek piece hunters star but

I noticed I have a very slight concave shape in the area above the cheek block where I'll be inletting the star. I assume this area should be more or less flat

so the star can be filed and sanded flush and smooth to the stock surface. With it being slightly concave I have no idea how I'd use a mill file in that area to work on the surface of the inlay. Any advice? $:-\$

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2012, 07:07:44 PM »

a half round file, a curved scraper and/or abrasive on a convex block that fits the concave curve of the cheekpiece. Self adhesive abrasive sheets are great for this....

Also the drawing on the paper is much better than the one on the stock... I recommend a great deal of white eraser..... you can't carve what you can't draw...

Robby · « **Reply #22 on:** April 22, 2012, 07:12:43 PM »

Brad, I would bend the star to fit the contour and carefully inlet to the proper depth.
Robby

LehighBrad · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2012, 07:30:57 PM »

LOL...I whole heartedly agree Dr. Tim.....I like the carving design on the paper better too...but thought it would be a little much for my skill level when it came time for chisel to touch wood. I'm not happy with the drawn on design either...my industrial sized eraser is waiting in the bull pen just out of camera range!

Never even thought of shaping a sanding block to match the concave area!!! See....that's why I LOVE this forum.

JDK · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2012, 07:59:43 PM »

Hey Brad, Is that a store bought star or one you made? I'm no Lehigh expert but it doesn't look right to me.....I'm kind of a symmetry nut. It could be right but the North and South points being smaller than the points flanking 'em just look odd to my eye. Look at Alan Martin's Busty Brunette or Smallpatches last gun to see what I mean. Generally, to me, if it looks odd off the gun, it will look worse on the gun. Just a suggestion. J.D.

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Author Topic: Butt plate and ram rod thimbles. (Read 8432 times)

LehighBrad

Vomitus

LehighBrad

Vomitus

Vomitus

Vomitus

WMnBR

LehighBrad

LehighBrad