More thorough load testing & comparing 2f to 3f in 58 cal.

[Harnic]

I spent a few hours at the range today gathering the following data:

Rifle- Track fullstock flint Hawken, 36" 58 cal Rice barrel using .026" cotton duck patch lubed with Hoppes #9 Plus.

Goex 3f 75 gr =
1. 1294
2. 1290
3. 1318
4. 1337
5. 1332

av. vel.= 1314 fps
e.s. = 47 fps


Goex 2f 75 gr =
1. 1286
2. 1310
3. 1285
4. 1283
5. 1293

av. vel. = 1291 fps
e.s. = 27 fps

Goex 3f 140 gr =
1. 1815
2. 1728
3. 1768
4. 1805
5. 1779

av. vel. = 1778 fps
e.s. = 87 fps

Goex 2f 140 gr =
1. 1670
2. 1694
3. 1710
4. 1676
5. 1674

av. vel. = 1684 fps
e.s. = 36 fps

I was able to fire all 20 shots without wiping the bore, I suspect because the patch material I took today is a bit thick, so it did a great job of scrubbing the bore each time I loaded.  I had run out of the denim I used last time & the tougher cotton duck patch may account for the slightly higher velocity with the 140 gr loads over the last results I posted in another thread here.  I suspect the denim patch was burning through or tearing.  Both 140 gr loads were brutal in the recoil department with the Hawken buttplate!  I'm sure I'll never have cause for that much power!  Targets just aren't that hard to kill!  Either of the 140 grain loads would completely ruin even a big Grizzly's day!

[Dave Faletti]

Thanks for posting the data.

[roundball]

I spent a few hours at the range today gathering the following data:
Rifle- Track fullstock flint Hawken, 36" 58 cal Rice barrel using .026" cotton duck patch lubed with Hoppes #9 Plus.

Good info...thanks !

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Very scientific, Harry.  You and Daryl have a lot in common. 

One thing that this sort of study does, is show trends.  If you're looking for THE accuracy load in a particular rifle, you are bound to find it a velocity that is more or less common to several other rifles and calibers.  Whether or not the shoulder can handle the 'equal and opposite reaction" is the question.

[Daryl]

In the 75gr. loads, 2F vs. 3F, I find the 25fps difference in averages while different when compared to the difference between 140gr. charges which had 95fps difference in averages.

As with my testing, 2f gave lower shot to shot variation than 3F, in both light squib loads and the heavy hunting type loads.  This means it shows greater consistancy and greater consistancy usually means better accuracy. The potential is there, one merely needs to expoloit it.

Thanks Harry. I mean to duplicate this test in my Musketoon. I cast up some .562" pure lead balls for it (.574" bore) - merely need to get out for testing- maybe tomorrow if it's nice. With only .003" rifling at the muzzle, I was finding the .575" balls (oversize) with the 10ounce denim at .0225" a bit snug-not impossible, but snug nonetheless.

[Harnic]

You and Daryl have a lot in common.  

  Whether or not the shoulder can handle the 'equal and opposite reaction" is the question.

I suppose that's why Daryl & I hit it off so well when we met at Heffley so many years ago!  

The old shoulder is definitely the limiting factor Taylor, but as weird as it sounds, my right ribs hurt more, I suspect from being wrenched around so violently at the bench!  I have a small, relatively pain-free bruise on my upper arm.  I should have fired off-hand.

[Harnic]

In the 75gr. loads, 2F vs. 3F, I find the 25fps difference in averages while different when compared to the difference between 140gr. charges which had 95fps difference in averages.

As with my testing, 2f gave lower shot to shot variation than 3F, in both light squib loads and the heavy hunting type loads.  This means it shows greater consistancy and greater consistancy usually means better accuracy. The potential is there, one merely needs to expoloit it.

Thanks Harry. I mean to duplicate this test in my Musketoon. I cast up some .562" pure lead balls for it (.574" bore) - merely need to get out for testing- maybe tomorrow if it's nice. With only .003" rifling at the muzzle, I was finding the .575" balls (oversize) with the 10ounce denim at .0225" a bit snug-not impossible, but snug nonetheless.

I too noticed the slightly better consistency with 2f, but I have lots of 3f & I use it in my Ruger Old Army as well, so it's simpler to stick with it.  I only have to carry one flask then!  Plus, I can't see the sights well, so any improvement in accuracy with 2f is lost on me.    I plan to build a half stock cap-buster Hawken next winter then I won't need to walk around with a pocket full of Rich's rocks!  

I would be very interested in your results with the Musketoon Daryl!  Don't do it seated though!!!  I have a Lyman .570 mould, can I send you a few to try?  @!*%, I wish we lived closer, you & I would have a ball testing all sorts of stuff!  None of my local shooting buddies are at all knowledgeable about ballistics, actually very few have been over the years.  It's a treat to find someone on the same page.

Dave & Rb, you're both welcome.  In spite of the beating I took, the results were very worth it!  Pretty !@*%&@ interesting stuff!

[Vomitus]

 Harry,LOL! It's funny and most smoothbore shooters around here(B.C.) notice this. Rifle shooters at the events ALL talk about ballistics,powder charges, ball size,LOP etc. The smoothbore guys talk about women, cars,The Waltons, villains,hero's, sex etc..  Geez Harry,shooting a rifle gets so boring, they hit all the time! The nice part about smoothbore shooting is when you miss, your group doesn't razz ya like the rifle guys! Rifle guys excuses(for missing) are all real old! Smoothbore excuses are all bonified and realistic and the boys will always slap your back and say"Geez Roy,that was real close"!  

added; I've been shooting my rifle for close to two years and the little fifty likes 2f.It shoots it so good that it is monotonous. Can't wait for the smoothie.Looking forward to missing the odd one!hehehe  The pea shooting small bores like 3f. Pistols too.

[Roger Fisher]

Harry,LOL! It's funny and most smoothbore shooters around here(B.C.) notice this. Rifle shooters at the events ALL talk about ballistics,powder charges, ball size,LOP etc. The smoothbore guys talk about women, cars,The Waltons, villains,hero's, sex etc..  Geez Harry,shooting a rifle gets so boring, they hit all the time! The nice part about smoothbore shooting is when you miss, your group doesn't razz ya like the rifle guys! Rifle guys excuses(for missing) are all real old! Smoothbore excuses are all bonified and realistic and the boys will always slap your back and say"Geez Roy,that was real close"!  

added; I've been shooting my rifle for close to two years and the little fifty likes 2f.It shoots it so good that it is monotonous. Can't wait for the smoothie.Looking forward to missing the odd one!hehehe  The pea shooting small bores like 3f. Pistols too.

Jeez, man you forgot to mention that medications are high on the 'talk' list. Sex, is always popular in discussion at least....

[Daryl]

I don't know, Roy - I tried the smoothbore - I just couldn't accept all the missing! HA! I mean - targets that were only 50 to 110 yards way - missing - me - we hates it's nastiness.

Tks for the offer, Harry. I have a .570 mould as well. Due to the progressive depth rifling, a thicker patch with the undersized ball seems to hold up better in this rifle. I am amazed the fired patches are re-usable.  There MUST be some obturation in the .58's ball as the rifling is .008" deeper in the breech, than at the muzzle. - English, you know. Actually, in the 1850's and 60's, all the minnie rifles had progressive depth rifling. I was concerned it wouldn't work with patched balls - glad I was mistaken.

[Vomitus]

...See!?

[Daryl]

HA! YUP

[Harnic]

Roy!  Shame on you!  You need to be more careful about popping your bizarre humor on old guys first thing in the morning!  I !@*%&@ near *#)*^~ myself laughing! 

[hanshi]

Very enlightening.  Thanks for sharing.

[Harnic]

Very enlightening.  Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome Hanshi, anytime. 

[Vomitus]

   Hairy, glad you got your fullstock Hawkling to shoot. I'll bet the .58 barrel knocked a pile of weight off of it! This is great news as I know how you struggled with the .50. Holding a 12 pound gun after 10 or 15 shots could be trying on a woodswalk.
  Physio started yesterday for me after 17 months of doing nuthin! Boy, am I outta shape.Today,I buy a pair of dumbells and get my toothpick arms up to snuff! My new smooth gun will be ready soon, so I need to do my part and get in shape for a fun summer of shooting.
 Hope you and your boys will be at Heffley Cr. this summer, and stay for a week this time. So many people to connect with there and hope this year we can get together and chat about all the wobbly pops we used to enjoy!  Cheers buddy!

[Harnic]

Roi   Yeah, the Hawken is pretty sweet now & the larger bore size cut a full pound off the weight which sits at 9.2 pounds now.

I hear you on being out of shape!  My !@*%&@ cancer ran me into the dirt for 5 years before it was diagnosed!  It's just over a year since the last surgery & my sails are FINALLY catching the wind again.  We're buying one of those BowFlex home gyms, already have & use a recumbent stationary bike, & I've walked 5 kms a day since last fall.  Good luck with your rehab!  It's a !@*%&@ long road back at our age.

I'm not sure about either of my sons for Heffley this year, but there's no way I can go without the grandsons!  I've created a couple monsters!  Every time I see them the conversation switches to the Heffley Creek rondy & how much fun they had!  I have to find a small muzzle loader for them & soon.

Hopefully I'll see you guys b4 Heffley this year, I'm getting that new scooter & will need a nice road trip to break it in!  Take good care my friend!  See you this summer!

[Vomitus]

Harrie, walked 2 miles last night.(i walk at night 'cause I walk like a penguin,lol) This is the farthest I've gone since before the surgeon had his way with me,lol. Sure nice to be clear of major pain though! I'm shooting the fifty tomorrow.We'll see how that goes. 2f of course! Should be real boring hitting more then I miss,lol! All the best Harnouk!...that's Arabic,hehehe!

[Daryl]

Those BopwFlex gyms are great - you can hang all sorts of cothos all over them - better than a shrot tread-mill - except maybe the long ones with long handles, for hanging clothes, of course.

[Harnic]

Way to go Roy!  Both of us should be back in good form for Heffley!  I bet it's GREAT to be pain-free again!

Daryl, 2 friends have Bowflex gyms & keep using them!  They challenge you well & keep your interest I hear.  Going to set up my old study as a gym/sauna (infra-red no less!) room.  It's right next to the bathroom I'm renovating now that'll have a great shower.

Boy did we get off topic!  Sorry....

[Daryl]

Harry- I am quite excited to hear you taking on all these projects - good for you - after so long in recovery.

[Harnic]

Harry- I am quite excited to hear you taking on all these projects - good for you - after so long in recovery.

Thanks buddy!  It's great to start enjoying life again.  See you this summer!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Have you all heard Loudon Wainwrights new Album "Older than my Old Man Now"    There is a duet in it called "I Remember Sex"!!!   Its a hoot!!  http://www.amazon.com/Older-Than-Old-Man-Explicit/dp/B007HI8M9O

[Vomitus]

Harry, 75 gr. 2f in the rain,3c,100% Hm. First couple shots produced the gooy $#@* in the pan but still decent ignition.Didn't shoot much,really miserable weather.Twenty five shots, accuracy real good,light was tricky with snow blotches everywhere between and around targets. Ross' smoothbore gave him fits! LOL!!! Ignition was good with his gun,but in the given light,his shots were stringing vertically. The conditions didn't compliment smoothy shooting but you take what you get up here. His "new" gun(an old Centremark, sn. under 300) that he rebuilt, shoots real nice.With 65 gr. of 2f, it's sweet on the shoulder with no face gouging. Ross had a few hangers tho. In yesterdays light conditions, he was mostly hitting low. As always,it's just great to get out and make some smoke! Cheers Harry

[Daryl]

Glad you got out, LB - had family commitments - we were Baby sitting our grand child - it's special.   The rain did look nasty, just as it is today as well.