I am going to expose myself!

[Bob Roller]

You can still use the basket material or veneer.Check with hobby shops to see what's  available in thin wood.
I milled a solid percussion breech for the N,Lewis copy I am trying to make and the tang is too narrow, It doesn't look too bad but I am going to cut it off and make a combination tang and hooked breech. An undetected bearing failure in my milling machine caused the problem. Every so often,something will go sour no matter how much experience a person has so don't give up.

Bob Roller 

[mbokie5]

You can still use the basket material or veneer.Check with hobby shops to see what's  available in thin wood.
I milled a solid percussion breech for the N,Lewis copy I am trying to make and the tang is too narrow, It doesn't look too bad but I am going to cut it off and make a combination tang and hooked breech. An undetected bearing failure in my milling machine caused the problem. Every so often,something will go sour no matter how much experience a person has so don't give up.

Bob Roller 

I think I will pursue the veneer idea. Haven't considered giving up. I do think it's salvageable, now, after all you experienced gun builders have spoke up about this. Seems it's entirely within the realm of doable. It may have some ugly when I'm done, but it will be solid and shapely or there will be a new stock.

There was a lot of ugly when my mother was done with me, but I worked. 

Thanks a lot gunners and please keep the tips and advice coming.

[Jim Kibler]

Suggestions for a fix are great, but the bigger issue is how it happened.  It may be good to review the process for inletting metal parts in wood or else similar issues will likely arise again.  It may also be a good idea to practice with scrap pieces of metal and wood.  This is a very basic process in gunbuilding that can be difficult to some just starting out.  Read, ask questions, practice etc. 

[Jerry V Lape]

Here is how I fixed a poor barrel inlet caused by a warped forestock.   On a good table saw I cut thin strip of wood from the cutoff of the original blank.  That strip was a little wider than the depth of the vertical side of the barrel inlet.  After experimenting with the saw I found the sugar maple would give me a thickness of 3 /32" with good strength.  I held that strip down on the saw table with one hand and used a small finger held piece of steel to scrape it down to 1/16".  Then I glued it in with stainable wood glue. I used multiple clamps to squeeze the wood into place with  pieces of 1/4" steel bar stock backing to insure the pressure was uniform so the glue joint was completely closed.  I reinletted the barrel on that side, again using the small steel scraper, and lots of patience.  The glued in strip in some places was no more than 1/64" thick and is virtually indistinguishable from the original wood because I was even able to line up the curls on this extreme piece of wood which has 7 curls per inch. There is no way I would have given up on this exceptional piece of wood.     

[bluenoser]

I won't quit, I want this rifle. 

On a side note, I was one of Lee Valley's first customers in the store that was off of Pinecrest/Greenbank in Ottawa/Nepean.

That's the attitude!  It sounds like you may be a fellow Canuck.

You can probably get veneer from Lee Valley if they are near you.  If you build guitars, you probably already have good sources.  Obviously, maple would be the first choice but light colored birch would probably work if you can't find maple.  If you have a table saw, you should be able to purchase a kiln dried maple board from the local building supply and rip strips the thickness you need.

Jim makes an excellent point.  Did you file a draft on the tang before inletting?  Same procedure would apply to other parts you will be inletting.

Laurie

[JDK]

I would say I've taken more off the bad side than the good side and that the good side is still quite a bit over half.

I was thinking that there's still a lot of wood left before I get near the ramrod channel. And that I might be able to alter the channel to accommodate a little better. but maybe that's flawed thinking. (?)

The ramrod channel should have nothing to do with the gap at the barrel.

To clarify my previous post, when viewed from the side does the height of your forestock reveal less than half the side barrel flat?  Is the gap at the barrel side the full depth of the side of the barrel or does it taper in toward the barrel?

If you answered yes to both to questions go ahead and shape the forend bringing the height of the forestock down to less than half of the barrels side flat....i.e. revealing more than half the barrel.  You may find at this point that the gap is gone.  If not, address a filler at that point as others have suggested.  You may be worried about a something that is not a problem yet.   J.D.

[mbokie5]

Suggestions for a fix are great, but the bigger issue is how it happened.  It may be good to review the process for inletting metal parts in wood or else similar issues will likely arise again.  It may also be a good idea to practice with scrap pieces of metal and wood.  This is a very basic process in gunbuilding that can be difficult to some just starting out.  Read, ask questions, practice etc. 

Agreed. I think Bluenoser hit the nail on the head.

Go ahead and let me have it cuz that's what I'm here for. 

[mbokie5]

Here is how I fixed a poor barrel inlet caused by a warped forestock.   On a good table saw I cut thin strip of wood from the cutoff of the original blank.  That strip was a little wider than the depth of the vertical side of the barrel inlet.  After experimenting with the saw I found the sugar maple would give me a thickness of 3 /32" with good strength.  I held that strip down on the saw table with one hand and used a small finger held piece of steel to scrape it down to 1/16".  Then I glued it in with stainable wood glue. I used multiple clamps to squeeze the wood into place with  pieces of 1/4" steel bar stock backing to insure the pressure was uniform so the glue joint was completely closed.  I reinletted the barrel on that side, again using the small steel scraper, and lots of patience.  The glued in strip in some places was no more than 1/64" thick and is virtually indistinguishable from the original wood because I was even able to line up the curls on this extreme piece of wood which has 7 curls per inch. There is no way I would have given up on this exceptional piece of wood.     

That's kind of like making purfling for a guitar if the piece needs to be pared down a bit. Good idea, Thanks!

[mbokie5]

I won't quit, I want this rifle. 

On a side note, I was one of Lee Valley's first customers in the store that was off of Pinecrest/Greenbank in Ottawa/Nepean.

That's the attitude!  It sounds like you may be a fellow Canuck.

You can probably get veneer from Lee Valley if they are near you.  If you build guitars, you probably already have good sources.  Obviously, maple would be the first choice but light colored birch would probably work if you can't find maple.  If you have a table saw, you should be able to purchase a kiln dried maple board from the local building supply and rip strips the thickness you need.

Jim makes an excellent point.  Did you file a draft on the tang before inletting?  Same procedure would apply to other parts you will be inletting.

Laurie

I'm American but I do live in Canada and have for many years.

I haven't built a guitar in many years. I do still have some Honduras mahogany saved for my finale.

I can get an acceptable piece of wood. It just felt a bit like sacrilege, but I get the point now. I do have a table saw and just about every other saw. I love tools as well as guns.

I don't know what a draft on the tang is, but no, I did not. It's pretty much just like it came with a bend and some filing but it's still mostly in tact, thickness wise.

[Roger Fisher]

The tang area can definitely be saved. Here's how I would do it. Clean up the edges of the inlet so they are nice and smooth so you will get a good glue joint. Find some slivers of wood that you have taken off of the stock and match the color of the wood in this area. Pre fit the slivers to the areas you need to fill so they are oversized by a 16th or more. Stain the slivers and the area around the inlet with the stain you are going to use. Let it all sit over night for the stain to dry. Then glue in your slivers using either super glue or stainable elmers and when they are all set up re-inlet the tang.

For the line along the barrel, it is hard to tell from the picture but if it is not too bad the finish may be enough to close it up some.  I think I have heard of steaming the area, putting the barrel back in, and then wrapping it all with surgical tubing too to move it tight to the barrel. I haven't had to do this so I'm not too sure.

Steam the bugger then clamp (with barrel in) it works been there.  Gluing in the slivers at the tang works also don't be shy. After a while that repair will not even cross your mind, nor anyone else's.

[mbokie5]

I would say I've taken more off the bad side than the good side and that the good side is still quite a bit over half.

I was thinking that there's still a lot of wood left before I get near the ramrod channel. And that I might be able to alter the channel to accommodate a little better. but maybe that's flawed thinking. (?)

The ramrod channel should have nothing to do with the gap at the barrel.

To clarify my previous post, when viewed from the side does the height of your forestock reveal less than half the side barrel flat?  Is the gap at the barrel side the full depth of the side of the barrel or does it taper in toward the barrel?

If you answered yes to both to questions go ahead and shape the forend bringing the height of the forestock down to less than half of the barrels side flat....i.e. revealing more than half the barrel.  You may find at this point that the gap is gone.  If not, address a filler at that point as others have suggested.  You may be worried about a something that is not a problem yet.   J.D.

I mentioned the proximity of the ramrod channel to give an idea of the amount of wood left on the bottom of the channel. It's still somewhat substantial.

I'm going to try another set of pics if I can get the lighting to work out. Pics are worth a thousand words.

I hope you're right about a problem not existing.

[mbokie5]

The tang area can definitely be saved. Here's how I would do it. Clean up the edges of the inlet so they are nice and smooth so you will get a good glue joint. Find some slivers of wood that you have taken off of the stock and match the color of the wood in this area. Pre fit the slivers to the areas you need to fill so they are oversized by a 16th or more. Stain the slivers and the area around the inlet with the stain you are going to use. Let it all sit over night for the stain to dry. Then glue in your slivers using either super glue or stainable elmers and when they are all set up re-inlet the tang.

For the line along the barrel, it is hard to tell from the picture but if it is not too bad the finish may be enough to close it up some.  I think I have heard of steaming the area, putting the barrel back in, and then wrapping it all with surgical tubing too to move it tight to the barrel. I haven't had to do this so I'm not too sure.

Steam the bugger then clamp (with barrel in) it works been there.  Gluing in the slivers at the tang works also don't be shy. After a while that repair will not even cross your mind, nor anyone else's.

That's encouraging.

Thanks!

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I am working with the same thing.  I am helping my dad build a kit and made a mess of the tang area.  So far in my experience, which is limited, that is one of the toughest areas.  I am working with the same suggestions you are getting.  Good luck to both of us. 

Coryjoe

[mbokie5]

I am working with the same thing.  I am helping my dad build a kit and made a mess of the tang area.  So far in my experience, which is limited, that is one of the toughest areas.  I am working with the same suggestions you are getting.  Good luck to both of us. 

Coryjoe

Amen to that CoryJoe.

[bluenoser]

A draft is a slight taper to the edges of the part you are inletting so the area that first enters the wood is slightly smaller than the exposed face of the part - if that makes sense.  The slight taper makes it easier to cut a tight inlet because the part will start to seat before the inlet is fully cut to width.  use inletting black, lipstick or whatever to show the tight spots and just pare a little away at a time until the part seats.

Laurie

[mbokie5]

A draft is a slight taper to the edges of the part you are inletting so the area that first enters the wood is slightly smaller than the exposed face of the part - if that makes sense.  The slight taper makes it easier to cut a tight inlet because the part will start to seat before the inlet is fully cut to width.  use inletting black, lipstick or whatever to show the tight spots and just pare a little away at a time until the part seats.

Laurie

OK, yeah. I have referred to it as a taper, but if draft is the correct term, I'll pick up the language eventually. Thanks.

[bluenoser]

Both work for me 

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Here's an idea to try. for the barrel gap problem (it doesn't look to wide) get some edging veneer in maple (or birch if maple isn't available) glue that to the edge it's thin so won't require much to fix the barrel it inlet again. It's an idea.

[mbokie5]

Here's an idea to try. for the barrel gap problem (it doesn't look to wide) get some edging veneer in maple (or birch if maple isn't available) glue that to the edge it's thin so won't require much to fix the barrel it inlet again. It's an idea.

Where it's not snug to the barrel, it's only that way about half the depth of the channel. It's snug for about half of the inlet on less than half of that barrel flat. It's open at the top

Lots of folks agree with your veneer Idea and I will have to pursue that.

[bob in the woods]

I'm a luthier. If you have built instruments in the past, you must surely recall that they are even less forgiving of a lack of patience, and the use of less than sharp tools.  Slow down, and you'll finish sooner.
Sharpen your tools, and use soot/ inletting black to help get a good inlet,

[JDK]

Where it's not snug to the barrel, it's only that way about half the depth of the channel. It's snug for about half of the inlet on less than half of that barrel flat. It's open at the top

Lots of folks agree with your veneer Idea and I will have to pursue that.

Again, finish lowering the your forend first and you may find that you don't have a problem.  If there is then still a gap....and from you most recent description it sounds as though you won't....you can adress it then.  It doesn't take long at all and we've been hashing this over all day.  I'm done, J.D.

[JoeG]

Interesting.

I'm certain that the missing wood is of a greater volume than a strip of construction paper. How would the paper stand up over time?

I have a gun that I've used for over 30 years with paper in it

It holds up real well
I learned this trick when I worked at GRRW
It can used to fill slight gaps in the butt plate or along the side of the tang
Put glue on the wood side and put the barrel back in until it dries
once dry you can file or sand it
the paper takes AF well and the finish hides it
very slight gaps can also be filled in by rubbing with beeswax
if you use a linseed oil/beeswax finish they blend right in

for really big gaps use a wood sliver

[Jim Kibler]

I'm sorry to be negative, but paper to fill gaps

[JDK]

I hope it is at least 18th century hand laid paper.   

You guys out there with GRRW's guns better take a closer look.  J.D.

[mbokie5]

 

Thanks most kindly for everyone's input and help.

I'm going with the veneer suggestion for the channel, should it be required and the sliver suggestion for the tang area.

I'll order all the stain components tomorrow and locate some maple veneer.

If it ends up looking not too bad, I'll snap another pic and post the results.