I am going to expose myself!

[JoeG]

I'm sorry to be negative, but paper to fill gaps

2012
search for maple veneer on web
order using credit card
3 days later veneer arrives

Lets rewind to 1975
slight gap in wood
must first realize that that rolls of maple veneer even exist
go to local grocery store to buy woodworking mag to find source
no woodworking mag  being sold in town
drive 175 miles to city book store
drive home
order catalog
write check
wait for catalog to arrive
fill out order form
write check ( credit cards hard to get in 1975)
store has to wait for check to clear
3-4  weeks later veneer arrives

Paper and wood glue worked , is fast , cheap , and available
Last I looked construction paper is made of wood pulp
Try it you might like it

slight gaps are a cosmetic problem you fix them  so you that they don't show
I use veneer strips now because it is easier to get now then the old days

Question;

What did the 18th and 19th century gunsmiths use you to fill slight gaps?
I don't believe   they were so good that they didn't have any.

You guys out there with GRRW's guns better take a closer look.  J.D.

maybe you should be taking a closer look at your antique guns

[JDK]

Hey now, if we're going to get our hackle's up over a little tongue and cheek.....

Anyway, even you admit that paper is not the correct fix as you no longer do it.

Originals?  I have seen gaps fixed with what would appear be veneer strips but of course it was probably different thicknesses of plane shavings or fines cut off with a sharp chisel and glued in place.  Something that could have been done quickly and easily with out driving to town or writing a check.

Enjoy, J.D.

[JoeG]

No offense taken
I was just giving the young  bucks a feel for what is like in the good old days

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

1975 is the good old days?   Now I know I am getting old.............!!

[WMnBR]

I'd opt for Elmer's Stainable glue.  I've used it several times to fix a mistake.  It takes any stain just fine, even aqua fortis.  The best part is a small bottle will last for years.

[mbokie5]

I'd opt for Elmer's Stainable glue.  I've used it several times to fix a mistake.  It takes any stain just fine, even aqua fortis.  The best part is a small bottle will last for years.

Sounds good. Available here for 5.90/8 oz.

Elmer's stainable glue

[MarkEngraver]

1975 is the good old days?Huh   Now I know I am getting old.............!!  Quote: Dr. Tim

$#@* ! I just realize I may be an old guy now !!?

[JDK]

mbokie5,

It's been 2 full days.  Have you taken that forend down to finished height yet?  Don't be scared.  Just grab the long straight edge and strike a line with your pencil from muzzle to the lock panels just under half way down the barrel....oh, do both sides.....rasp/file down to the line.  Since we have probably just started the fifth page on how to fix these gaps we really want to know if the ones by the barrel are really there.   

Enjoy, J.D.

[mbokie5]

mbokie5,

It's been 2 full days.  Have you taken that forend down to finished height yet?  Don't be scared.  Just grab the long straight edge and strike a line with your pencil from muzzle to the lock panels just under half way down the barrel....oh, do both sides.....rasp/file down to the line.  Since we have probably just started the fifth page on how to fix these gaps we really want to know if the ones by the barrel are really there.   

Enjoy, J.D.

Yeah, I did do some work. The area near the lock still seems a bit too much above the stock. It does look better but still not good enough.

The gap is still there. Improved and can likely be improved some more. I'm not as hopeful as you are that it will disappear. No doubt, entirely due to my poor work. But I seriously hope you're right and I'm wrong. What do you expect from a greenhorn? 

I'll be at it, until we go turkey hunting tomorrow evening. Then I'll be gone until we get our birds or come home Sunday evening.

[Long John]

Like the others have said, your goofs are fixable.  Here are my thoughts on the matter.

First, your tools are not sharp enough.  If you cannot shave the hair off the back of your hand with your chizels you are not ready to build a gun with them.

Every metal part should have a slight, 2 to 5 degree, draft filed on the edges before letting in begins, including the barrel.  When I am letting in a barrel I take a magic marker and color the side flats of the barrel and then draw file the bottom half of the side flats until the color is gone for the whole length of the barrel.

Get a maple board and a real sharp plane.  Adjust the iron to make an angled cut and make long ribbons of wood with a wedge-shaped cross-section.  Take the barrel out give it a good coat of car wax and reinstall.  Soak your wood ribbons in water.  Paint a little Elmer's glue on one side of the wood ribbon and tap it in along the barrel, glue-side next to stock.  Set the ribbon in along-side the barrel using a little piece of wood and a mallet to tap it down as far as it will go.  Let it dry for a couple of days.  Without removing the barrel, using a sharp chisel carefully trim off the excess wood.  As mentioned in above posts if your glue joint is good and tight it will not be all that visible once the gun is stained.  You can use a similar method for the area around the tang although your gap looks a little wide for a plane ribbon.

Best Regards,,

John Cholin

[JDK]

Best advise yet on filling that gap.  J.D.

[mbokie5]

Like the others have said, your goofs are fixable.  Here are my thoughts on the matter.

First, your tools are not sharp enough.  If you cannot shave the hair off the back of your hand with your chizels you are not ready to build a gun with them.

Every metal part should have a slight, 2 to 5 degree, draft filed on the edges before letting in begins, including the barrel.  When I am letting in a barrel I take a magic marker and color the side flats of the barrel and then draw file the bottom half of the side flats until the color is gone for the whole length of the barrel.

Get a maple board and a real sharp plane.  Adjust the iron to make an angled cut and make long ribbons of wood with a wedge-shaped cross-section.  Take the barrel out give it a good coat of car wax and reinstall.  Soak your wood ribbons in water.  Paint a little Elmer's glue on one side of the wood ribbon and tap it in along the barrel, glue-side next to stock.  Set the ribbon in along-side the barrel using a little piece of wood and a mallet to tap it down as far as it will go.  Let it dry for a couple of days.  Without removing the barrel, using a sharp chisel carefully trim off the excess wood.  As mentioned in above posts if your glue joint is good and tight it will not be all that visible once the gun is stained.  You can use a similar method for the area around the tang although your gap looks a little wide for a plane ribbon.

Best Regards,,

John Cholin

Interesting.

Now how long do the ribbons need to soak? Do they need to dry at all before applying the glue? Do they need to be flattened? Or do you want to use the ribbons while they're still damp? Does the moisture have any effect on the glue?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but as you could see, I didn't ask enough in the first place. 

Thanks for the advice, it sounds good.

[Roger Fisher]

Like the others have said, your goofs are fixable.  Here are my thoughts on the matter.

First, your tools are not sharp enough.  If you cannot shave the hair off the back of your hand with your chizels you are not ready to build a gun with them.

Every metal part should have a slight, 2 to 5 degree, draft filed on the edges before letting in begins, including the barrel.  When I am letting in a barrel I take a magic marker and color the side flats of the barrel and then draw file the bottom half of the side flats until the color is gone for the whole length of the barrel.

Get a maple board and a real sharp plane.  Adjust the iron to make an angled cut and make long ribbons of wood with a wedge-shaped cross-section.  Take the barrel out give it a good coat of car wax and reinstall.  Soak your wood ribbons in water.  Paint a little Elmer's glue on one side of the wood ribbon and tap it in along the barrel, glue-side next to stock.  Set the ribbon in along-side the barrel using a little piece of wood and a mallet to tap it down as far as it will go.  Let it dry for a couple of days.  Without removing the barrel, using a sharp chisel carefully trim off the excess wood.  As mentioned in above posts if your glue joint is good and tight it will not be all that visible once the gun is stained.  You can use a similar method for the area around the tang although your gap looks a little wide for a plane ribbon.

Best Regards,,

John Cholin

Interesting.

Now how long do the ribbons need to soak? Do they need to dry at all before applying the glue? Do they need to be flattened? Or do you want to use the ribbons while they're still damp? Does the moisture have any effect on the glue?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but as you could see, I didn't ask enough in the first place. 

Thanks for the advice, it sounds good.

Hey 5, splurge a little and get hold of Dixon's book on building he get's in to the basics very well and you won't then be baffled by terms similar to 'draft'

[pathfinder]

1975,good old day's.....................SHEESH!  In my day's doing undergrad work,calculator's,weren't even around,post grad...FORBIDDEN,"They'll make you lazy". How right were they?

[JDK]

Five pages on fixing inletting gaps.....and still going.......

[mbokie5]

Five pages on fixing inletting gaps.....and still going.......

Well geeze are you offended?

it was, I thought, not a problem to ask questions here.

Do I have that wrong?

If I have offended you, that was certainly not my intention.

If it's too pedestrian for you, then I apologise again.

I was looking for some input, I got some, I'm grateful.

but if you think it should be locked and such questions should not be asked or dwelled on, then maybe you could share with me the appropriate code of conduct in these matters.

Because offense or irritation was not intended what so ever.

I thank every one for their time and input and I will just observe.

[Roger Fisher]

Five pages on fixing inletting gaps.....and still going.......

Well geeze are you offended?

it was, I thought, not a problem to ask questions here.

Do I have that wrong?

If I have offended you, that was certainly not my intention.

If it's too pedestrian for you, then I apologise again.

I was looking for some input, I got some, I'm grateful.

but if you think it should be locked and such questions should not be asked or dwelled on, then maybe you could share with me the appropriate code of conduct in these matters.

Because offense or irritation was not intended what so ever.

I thank every one for their time and input and I will just observe.

Well Heck I took JK as simply saying that this site is a great place to get answers and darn quick from many folks and certainly not that you offended him or anyone else for that matter.  Go with the flow, this be a great well of good information.

[bob in the woods]

I don't think you've offended anyone .....but you would help yourself a great deal and save materials if you spend some time practicing the basic skills necessary to building a longrifle. Buying one of the recommended books will take you a long way to identifying what basics you need, and you'll have a much better idea of the overall process.  Even if you're building from a kit, it will help. I'm sure that people here want to help, but ,  .there are limitations .  A book, or even a video [ Chambers sells one ]  will really get you on the right track.  Fixing a goof is great; but not making one is better  

[Eric Smith]

This is getting funny.

[Long John]

Mr. bokie,

To answer your questions in the order posed:

1. soak your ribbons until they are bendy
2. while they are wet put the glue on and install them.  I should have made that clear, my fault.  You want your patch wood bendy and squashy so it flows into the nooks and crannies of the gaps.  Furthermore, the glue is water soluble and will soak into the wood better if the wood is wet.
3. you will find that by adjusting the chip breaker on your plane a little bit further back the shavings will not have so much curl and will tend to be flatter.  When you soak them they will soften and lie flat for you.  It doesn't matter how long they are.  When one ends or breaks just grab another and mush it down into the gap where the last one ended and continue.

There is a filled gap almost the entire length of the 42 inch length of the barrel of this rifle.



The judges never noticed, the ALR gang at the Fair never noticed and the guy the offered me $5K didn't either.


4.This site is for asking questions and getting answers.  However, there is a lot of info in some of the how-to tutorial books and you are going to need to get them if your really want to progress.


Best Regards.

John Cholin

[JDK]

Five pages on fixing inletting gaps.....and still going.......

Well geeze are you offended?

Me offended?  No....I don't offend this easily.  Merely stating a fact.

What is often hard to remember is that this is written word and it is hard to judge emotion or intent so some things just have to be taken as written and not read into.....just left go.  I have gained allot from this site I have, in turn, offered you my advise freely and often on this subject.  Please take that into account in the future.

Thanks Bob and Roger.  Again, John, good advise.  Enjoy, J.D.

[JDK]

Maybe one of the Administrators can answer this.

Did this OP quit the site or just block me or something?  I noticed this morning that his name on the post appears in "black" where everybody else's name appears in "blue".

Thanks, J.D.

[Ken G]

I believe that means he deleted his membership

[bob in the woods]

For someone who said he used to build guitars, I was restrained and polite in suggesting that basic skills be
mastered prior to attacking any wood.  Any forum re woodworking in general would be capable re helping him at this stage. The questions were not at a level to be considered specific to longrifle building. IMO
He asked for criticism and ,frankly , [ again IMO ] got a pretty easy ride.

[rich pierce]

I like the info on this thread.  I never thought of adjusting the chip breaker to lessen the curl.  I've been using a steam iron to flatten my strips all these years!