Critiques please...before chisel touches wood.

[LehighBrad]

Need some honest input as to how this design looks....symetry, etc. I got thick skin so don't be shy. This pic is AFTER I reduced the size of my cheekpiece now.

[Bennypapa]

THEY'RE ON THE WRONG SIDE!!!!


I'm kidding.

The scrolls look well placed and their curves are sized well and are very smoothly drawn with few dead spots in the curves.

I'm not sure about the design above the scrolls. Is it taken from an example we can look at.

[blunderbuss]

 

  Suggestion The top curl on the left the one that's just a line make it bigger to fill more of  the area of the bend in the butt plate  and perhaps reduce the size of the leaf
. There is an old German story about a famous artist that put one of his drawings up in the city square and told every one to erase any short line they thought was not correct. In the morning when he returned there was nothing on the paper.

[JDK]

Hey Brad,  The North and South points on your start are too short.....oh, we did that already. 

I like what you have going on there although I too think the top end could be a little heavier.  Don't take my word for it this time though.  Let's see who else chimes in.

J.D.

[smylee grouch]

I wonder how it would look if you reversed the end scrol( the one close to the butt) and had the open part of the scrol towards the butt.   Smylee

[JDK]

Me again.  I assume this is a Lehigh by your moniker?  If it's not then ignore me.

I know you don't want to hear this but better we find out now than after you start cutting.

I know it's not true in all cases....and again refer to the experts....but don't most Lehighs have more freeboard behind the cheek piece?  More rectangle, longer fore and aft than square (excuse all the nautical speak).  The blank area you have there appears taller than it is long.  Maybe your cheek piece extends too far back?  It's hard to tell without seeing the whole buttstock but if it can be shortened up you could really stretch out your design.

Just thinkin' out loud.  Anybody else see it?  Alan, Scott, Eric....

J.D.

[smallpatch]

Brad,

What you've got, the over all design looks pretty nice, but definitely not Lehigh.  Cheekpiece is way to thick.  The space behind it looks very small.  Again, show us the entire side of that buttstock so we can give better advice.

[MarkEngraver]

I also would like to see the entire side of the stock.
There is a lot of open space between the star and the design behind the cheek piece.
Looks to me that the cheek piece could be reduced by a good bit there by giving you a lot more room to play with.
I'm not one for long cheek piece areas. I mount the stock a few times and look for the skin oil spot then get rid of the extra cheek area to about an inch or so behind the oil spot, shaping and blending til things look right/balanced to my eye. This is all within reason to the style of gun you making of course.

I like the basic concept and I agree with the things already mentioned, the single line scroll needs to extend to fill the area in the corner of the heel.
But I'd deal with the cheek area before I went any further.

Mark

[LehighBrad]

I'll post another full view picture of my stock WITH some scroll design changes this afternoon...after work. Thanks guys for your feedback....your opinions are like gospel to me.

[Eric Smith]

Can't tell without the whole buttstock picture but the cheekpiece may be too long and even a touch too low.       

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I think the little squiggle at the toe is kind of crowding the space.

[t.caster]

I, too would like to see it from the lock rearward. I'm thinking your cheek piece is too long at the rear, but I need to see the overall pic.
The top scroll comes out from the cheek too straight and I would gently swing it upward& forward a little more.

[LehighBrad]

Updated photo. I enlarged the upper left scroll and reduced the leaf. In the lower left I changed the squiggly line a bit. And I curved up the main scroll stem more as it comes off the cheek block. I DEFINATLEY SEE what you guys were talking about know when it comes to the whole area being too cramped and square!! After comparing it to the picture I have of the raw busty brunette, I understand how monolithic my cheek piece is!! @!*%?&!! <---'cuse my language. This design was just out of my head....I was freestylin'. I really don't want to copy anybodys work. And being only my third build.....I hope I'll smarten up.

[smallpatch]

Brad,

Still not too late to reduce the size of that cheekpiece.  You've got a great example of what they're supposed to look like right in front of you.  It will be much easier to make that drawing fit.

[MarkEngraver]

Now don't go beat'in yourself up !
 
You have your guide right in front of you in form of that picture of that " hot babe"   

Look and compare very intently and pare that cheek piece down to size.
If you wish to save your design, use some tracing paper to copy it, but know that it will not fit the new space once your done with the cheek area, it will only be a guide.

Mark

[Long John]

Mr. Brad,

Take a lood at your picture and a look at your rifle.  Note the differences.

The cheek piece is too large and extends to far back.  So make it smaller by wittling away on the back and bottom edges until it has the right proportions.

Next, the molding on your rifle is too bold.  Refine it.  Much of that is done for you with the first step above.

Next, your carving design looks more like the raised carving we would see on a Lancaster gun rather than the incised carving we would expect on a Lehigh rifle.  Study the carving on original Lehigh rifles more if that is what you want. 

Finally, what ever you do, remember that parallel lines are virtually forbidden in Roccocco decoration.  If the two sides of a volute or scroll are parallel to each other, even for a short distance, it will look like a serious "bad".  Your proposed design has a couple.

Best Regards.

John Cholin

[LehighBrad]

My cheekpiece AFTER reduction. Not so "monolithic" anymore?? I removed 1 inch from the butt plate end of the cheekpiece to give me more horizontal space and shaved down the upper part of the cheek block to allow more area where the hunter's star will go. More "Lehigh-ish" Yes? No??

[Acer Saccharum]

Maybe it's an optical or photographic illusion, but it looks to me that the top line of the comb bows up too much(at least for my liking)
If I follow the line of the buttplate extension, it appears that the ridge line of the comb bows up higher than an imaginary line continued forward of the buttplate extension. The whole buttstock appears too chubby to me for a Bucks or a Lehigh.

[LehighBrad]

Acer......I'm thinkin' you're right about the upper curve of the comb. Easily remedied....I'll fire up my rasp tommorrow evening and reduce the comb SLIGHTLY and blend the nose more too. Thanks for catching that.

[Acer Saccharum]

Brad, it looks like a slight hump between the end of the BP and the mid point of the comb.

This just illustrates how difficult it is to get a true sense of the shape over the internet. If photos are taken close up, the stock will be distorted in the picture. What's in the middle ground may appear larger than the parts of the stock on either side of the photo.

[smallpatch]

Brad,
I'll start by saying...... I think Acer is right.  OW that hurt!  If it's not an optical illusion, the comb definitely needs a little more tapering out toward the wrist.

Sorry, I don't want you to feel like we're piling on, but you've got the brunette right in front of you.

Great start on the cheek piece, but keep going, smaller yet, front to back, and thinner top to bottom, dish out that area a little more above the cheek piece. 

One last thing, and it may be a little late at this point.  Your cheekpiece is parallel with the bottom line of the butt stock.  Look at the brunette again, it tapers up away from the lower line as it goes toward the rear.

These beauties defy every rule you ever knew about gun building.  Lock not centered on the barrel, or on the wrist, not a straight line ANYWHERE, not a parallel line ANYWHERE, (OK maybe the moldings), barrel and rod pipes sticking way out of the wood., etc,etc.
Right now, you're probably wishing you had never started this huh?
I'm starting #3 and #4 right now............ it's an addition.  Hello, my name is Dane, and I'm a Lehigh junky!!

[LehighBrad]

Thanks Dane.....you're right about my cheekblock be parallel to the bottom line of my stock, but I'm working with a slight limitation here. You see....I bought this stock as a precarve from Dave Keck. At the time (last Feb.) he didn't actually have a true LEFT HANDED version of a Lehigh profile. So....he had to make my stock from a BUCKS county blank in left hand version. I stupidly figured "that's fine, I'll just modify and shape it as best as I can to make it resemble a Lehigh". Not realizing the little things like how UN-parallel the cheekblock is to the bottom stock profile. The top of the comb WAS straight with a really high nose. Oh well, this rifle is for my own personal use anyhow, I doesn't really have to fall into exacting Lehigh standards. Thanks for the tips along the way though...I appreciate them.

[Eric Smith]

Try progressing to a blank stock next time. It will allow you the flexibility to create whatever you like.     I think you will enjoy it.

[Long John]

Brad,

To do what Acer is suggesting is going to require that you remove about 1/8th inch of wood, at the most, about 3 inches forward of the butt and just soften the curve along the top of the butt a little, that's all!   Look at the extension of the butt plate.  The top line of your butt seems to rise above the line of the butt plate extension and then fall back down to where the nose of the butt meets the wrist.  That makes the butt look chubby.  The line of the butt plate extension doesn't rise - it just gently extends forward and slopes down toward the nose of the butt on this style of rifle.  Study your picture and you will see what I mean.

You're coming along!  Carving a rifle is sculpture!  You shape a little hear, then a little there, then some over here , then a little more there, working around the whole as a whole.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Acer Saccharum]

I spend more time on the form of the stock than at any other time. Take some off, look at it, if you can't see where more should come off, then wait.

Waiting.

Waiting is a very important skill. Knowing when to stop taking wood or metal off, when to start up again. If you are not sure how to proceed, then wait until you have a better idea of what you will do. Drawing the form out of a blank is not an easy thing to do, but given time and patience, and trusting yourself and your eye, you will find much satisfaction.

It's not easy, and if you hit it right on your first rifle or two, consider yourself lucky. It takes many rifles to understand what you are doing, just as it takes a painter many paintings.

Rifle building is an intuitive course of study for me, much akin to meditation.

And for others, the above is all hogwash, it's just a gun, get over yourself, get building.

Tom