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Author Topic: WHAT IZ IT ???  (Read 5547 times)

Offline clockman

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WHAT IZ IT ???
« on: May 01, 2012, 04:02:59 AM »

OK guys, I inherited this rifle from a neighbor who recently passed away.   His son didn't want it and knew that I was into black powder, so I don't have anything invested in this thing.  The problem is, I'm not sure if it is actually old or what it is.  Overall the gun is 62 inches and the barrel is 47 inches.   I believe the lock is original to the piece and that it was most likely a flintlock before being changed to percussion.   You can see where the pan was cut away to make room for the drum.  The lock fits perfectly into the stock so I believe it is original.  I believe the hammer is a modern replacement though.  The barrel is smooth bore and is octagon to round with a few wedding bands to make the transition.   The upper thimbles are welded to the barrel and are decoratively cut.   The stock has molding carved around the rear thimble.   Also the rear thimble has been inlet into the wood, all of the other brass hardware is simply applied over the wood.  The stock appears to be walnut with a major crack in the wrist, a couple of old screws are holding it together.   Instead of a screw that goes from the tang to the trigger plate, this one is reversed.  It has the most unusual rear sight I have ever seen and a worn down bead for a front sight.  At first I thought  the stock was cut down from a full stock. Could it  be they added the fancy thimbles after it was cut down???   I'm not sure what to make of it.  I have attached several pictures to let you decide for yourselves.


















WHAT DO YOU THINK??  Remember I don't have anything invested so you can't hurt my feelings!
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Offline Stophel

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 04:14:18 AM »
Neat gun, mid 18th century.  (It used to be flintlock.)  I wonder if it might be Turkish or North African???  The hardware is definitely not of typical European appearance...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 04:24:56 AM by Stophel »
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Offline wormey

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 04:17:57 AM »
The rear sight is similar to some on excavated examples of indian trade guns from the 1730 period as shown in Hamilton`s book Colonial Frontier Guns.  It was most certainly flintlock and was also full stocked apparantly now shortened to half-stock configuration.  The triggerguard looks like a replacement to me, but not necessarily.  Overall a pretty nice piece deserving of restoration by a competent person.  I`m sure others will have a different opinion....do your homework.  Get Hamiltons book for starters...Wormey
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Offline Stophel

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 04:24:00 AM »
It was definitely made as a half stock.  The rear sight is a "butterfly" type sight, not too uncommon, I suppose the Spanish were probably the first to come up with it.  In fact, the whole gun is sort of Spanish in form...but it's just not quite what I'd expect to see in a Spanish gun...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 04:27:00 AM by Stophel »
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Offline JDK

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 04:29:28 AM »
Interesting how the trigger guard is sheet brass folded in on itself.  Side plate appears to be pressed sheet too.  The only hardware that appears to be cast maybe the rear sight....but maybe not.  Middle Eastern?  J.D.
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J.D. Kerstetter

Offline Stophel

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 04:32:01 AM »
The more I look at it, the more I think it is North African.   ;)
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When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline clockman

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 04:36:26 AM »
The engraving and patina on the trigger guard is consistent with the other brass hardware.   I can take other pictures if it will help identify it further.
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Offline JDK

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 04:44:45 AM »
Wasn't implying that the guard wasn't consistant with the rest of the hardware just that it being folded sheet brass is interesting as most are cast.  It's design is deffinitely consistent with rest of the hardware.  I don't know that more pictures will help.  Who ever knows what it is will know it when they see it....that's for sure.  J.D.
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J.D. Kerstetter

Offline clockman

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 05:05:08 AM »
At first I was afraid that this was something someone slapped together, or worse a prop.   All the brass is simply nailed over the wood.  That made me suspect of the whole thing, but everything, including the trigger guard, is consistent; except for the hammer.  It definitely looks "modern".   I didnt know if the pictures showed that or not
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 07:09:02 AM »
  Maybe from Pakistan and made for the tourist trade.

Bob Roller
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Offline Don Getz

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 03:52:07 PM »
Made by and for a camel jockey...............Don
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Offline jdm

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 05:41:39 AM »


 Looks like  it might be a decorator piece to me.   JIM
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JIM

Offline TPH

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 06:24:35 PM »
Chris is right, North African.
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T.P. Hern

Offline clockman

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Re: WHAT IZ IT ???
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 05:56:55 AM »
Ok guys thanks for your imput.  I just didn't know what it was.   
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