Early Virginia Rifles

[DB]

Could someone recommend some good reference material on the early Virginia rifle for a build?

[Stophel]

What do you mean by "Early Virginia"?

If you mean "Pre Revolutionary", well, good luck.  

[rich pierce]

Could someone recommend some good reference material on the early Virginia rifle for a build?

Hi and welcome.  As Stophel indicated, there are major challenges in getting things nailed down for any pre-Revolutionary rifles and Virginia rifles are no exception.  First problem is that few rifles from the pre-Revolutionary War era are signed and dated.  There are zero signed and dated rifles, as far as I know, which can be attributed to Virginia before the war.  So we are left with rifles that are probably from a specific area because of characteristics we find there on later rifles, and that are probably "early" because of their architecture and the parts employed.  I'd advise studying Shumway's Rifles in Colonial America volume 2, with the caveat that much has been learned since the mid 1980's.  Next I'd advise getting all of Wallace Gusler's articles from Muzzle Blasts and studying them.  Then spend some time trying to synthesize all that and decide which guns appeal most to you.  The gun called the woodsrunner gun, RCA 124, and the Faber rifle (RCA 117) tickle my fancy.

It's important to realize that in the colonial period there were fewer builders, styles were less "established" and there was a lot of variability.  There's no sense lumping attributed pre-1780 rifles from Virginia together any more than lumping together early Albrecht-attributed, Schroyer-attributed, and Dickert- attributed rifles as "early Pennsylvania" rifles.  There are many vendors offering "Early Virginia" rifles and kits and many are generic guns with no particular ties to an original.  There are exceptions, but before committing to a kit I'd ask what original(s) the offering is based on.

[Stophel]

There are a few guns that are attributed to Va in the 1750's 1760's.  Personally, I seriously doubt these early dates, and even the locations are pure speculation.

Now, if you're going for 1780's-1790's, you're in better shape.  Post 1800 VA guns are easy to find.   

[Joe Schell]

What about the adam haymaker rifle, dosent that date to pre rev ?

[rich pierce]

The Haymaker rifle looks like a 1770's or 1780's rifle to me.  Gary Brumfield could give us better information on that.  Added in edit: looking at the site where the Haymaker rifle is featured, it says the owner of the rifle was killed in 1774.  So there ya go, it is pre-Revolutionary. 

Now what I wrote below may be superfluous:
When I see longrifles that look like longrifles it causes me to doubt they are pre-Revolutionary. I now expect 1765-1775 rifles to look oddball compared to a Beck or a Lancaster Dickert for example.  The discovery of several 1770's dated Oerters from Christians Spring is one of the things that has changed my thinking.  If you get to see these guns in person they are massive, muscular Germanic pieces, not sleek looking longrifles.  If they were not dated or attributed to Oerter most would think they were earlier guns.  Certainly there was no uniform progression in style changes and the Moravian rifles may be more "rootsy" than other contemporary pieces, but still, I have trouble reconciling what the Moravians were building and selling with the idea that other gunsmiths were selling sleek longrifles at the same time.  But it's probably not good to overthink these things.  I do know that folks often wish certain rifles were pre-Revolutionary.   Since the 1980's there has been increased interest in the pre-Golden Age rifles, and the earlier a rifle is attributed to be, the more it can be worth.  If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

[G-Man]

Shumway's "Rifles of Colonial America Volume II" has a number of rifles that either are or possible Virginia pieces from the pre-1790 era.  Enough anyway that you can get some ideas of features that would be appropriate.  As the others have said, they represent a variety of styles.  However, the attribution has changed on a few pieces since Shumway published in 1980.

There are period references to support that both iron and brass mounts were in use by the time of the Revolution so either would be OK. 

The Haymaker is a good example - you can find it on Mel Hankla's "American Historic Services" and "Kentucky Longirfles" websites.  It's owner was killed in Kentucky in 1774.  You might consider a "stepped toe/wrist" gun - also appropriate for the early period.

I think we have to be careful about extrapolating the apparent stylistic timelines that are assumed based on the work of eastern Pennsylvania Moravian trained gunsmiths to Virginia.  Oerter and the Christian's Spring shop might have just been retaining early style influences and represent a parallel, but contemporary style to the Haymaker or other pieces being made in the south, and neither necessarily influencing the other very much by the early 1770s.  It seems likely to me that longrifle evolution followed different styles and paces in different regions where it was going on in the pre-Rev. era, and the starting examples and gunsmiths that started or influenced individual local styles differed from place to place as well.

Fun stuff to consider - good luck with your project.

GM

[BigDad]

Hershel House made an instructional video that goes from beginning to end on building an early Virginia.  I can't remember the name of it, but you can probably find it on Amazon.  Good luck.

[WMnBR]

I think we have to be careful about extrapolating the apparent stylistic time lines that are assumed based on the work of eastern Pennsylvania Moravian trained gunsmiths to Virginia.  Oerter and the Christian's Spring shop might have just been retaining early style influences and represent a parallel, but contemporary style to the Haymaker or other pieces being made in the south, and neither necessarily influencing the other very much by the early 1770s.  It seems likely to me that longrifle evolution followed different styles and paces in different regions where it was going on in the pre-Rev. era, and the starting examples and gunsmiths that started or influenced individual local styles differed from place to place as well.

Fun stuff to consider - good luck with your project.

GM

I agree.  Another example would be J. P. Beck.  He used early features even late in his career.  A rifle by Issac Haines, who was relatively near by carries few (IIRC) early features.

[Don Tripp]

RCA # 123 by F. Klette. Pages 534-539 is a rifle that could have been built during the Revolution. If you want something prior to the Revolution, then check out the transitional rifles in RCA I and conservatively incorproate some elements that were found on the earliest known Virginia rifles.

Also.. There is a booklet that comes with the Hershel House video "Building a Kentucky Rifle" from American Pioneer video that has a full size drawing of a rifle that he built in an older video. This booklet is still available from American Pioneer video for $10. I've seen it for sale from other vendors as well for the same price.

[Dan Fruth]

I measured the barrel on the early va rifle called "woodsrunner", and the taper on that barrel is the same as that on an early rifle once owned by Earl Lanning. I'm currently trying to get together an order for that profile barrel from Jason at Rice barrel. He has dis-continued the profile because he said he didn't sell enough of that barrel...BUT...the profile is perfect for a series of early rifles, including early VA as well as early reading or christian spring. Mark Wheland has also used that profile, as well as the late Dave Dodds, and it makes a great rifle.