My build

[J.Cundiff]

Okay... here goes. I'm finishing up a Chambers Early Lancaster rifle. Figured before I get much further, I should get some opinions. This is my first "real" build... I put together one of those little Pedersoli Kentucky Pistol kits before buying this set, but that wasn't really a "build" per se... most of the hard stuff was already done.

I'm down to where I'm sanding, trying to get the stock as slim as I dare... shaping the cheekpiece the way I want. My current plan is to try to do a similar simple carving to the Early Schroyer rifle Bill Shipman recently finished.

So... here are the pics. Sorry I don't have the triggerguard and the ramrod thimbles installed currently... as I am sanding. I will share pics of it later with those installed if you'd like to see them.











Thoughts? If I gotta fix stuff... now's the time to do it. Hit me folks... I'll be okay.

[rich pierce]

Hi, always hard  for me to "see" a gun in the white, everything blends and the shapes are not apparent.  Also you have a lot of pictures at non-traditional angles.  If we could see some dead-on side and top and bottom views that would help.  So far what I see looks great, from the pix it looks like you may be able to show a little more side flat of the barrel unless the nosecap already installed makes that impossible to change.

[J.Cundiff]

Fair enough. I will go ahead and attach the rest of the hardware, and get some pics at more traditional straight-on angles. Thanks!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I realize you have yet to finish the edges of your lock and sideplate moldings, however if you look at the tail of the lock you can see that so far you have left more wood on the top of the tail than the bottom.  If you made them equal it would also bring the point of the panel to just below center line of the wrist which is where I think they look best..  Those more expert in Lancaster guns may see it differently, I am no expert there.  I do like how slim you are making the panels!!

[Roger Fisher]

Hi, always hard  for me to "see" a gun in the white, everything blends and the shapes are not apparent.  Also you have a lot of pictures at non-traditional angles.  If we could see some dead-on side and top and bottom views that would help.  So far what I see looks great, from the pix it looks like you may be able to show a little more side flat of the barrel unless the nosecap already installed makes that impossible to change.

I agree about showing more side flat (barrel) best show a hair more than half the flat.  Notice that the sliding wood patch box cover too 'clunky'.  More photos needed.

[J.Cundiff]

Thank you gentlemen... I will post some more pics, and, I see what you're talking about with regards to making the lock panel even around the lock. I will definitely work on evening that out when I work in finishing the lock panel shaping and sanding. I've been saving that for last to ensure they're nice and crisp.

I have already attached the forend cap, and when I look at the sides of the barrel, it looks to me like the stock is right at the half way point, which is where I thought it was supposed to be. 

I've re-attached the rest of the furniture, and I will take some more photos tonight when I get home from work and try to get them posted.

John

[J.Cundiff]

Okay folks... here are some more photos at more traditional angles... my wonderful daughter was kind enough to hold the rifle for me while I took the pictures.

I do know that the candy striped ramrod is not PC/HC, and I knew that when I did it. I have 2 ramrods, and the plan was to have one striped, and one not, because I personally just think the striped ones are cool. 

I also still have to file off the screw heads on the plate on the rear of the patchbox lid.





































Again, thank you for taking the time to look and offer your opinions. I will end up with a better rifle as a result, I am sure.

John

[Ionian]

  I would like to see more of the barrel and ram rod exposed.

[B Shipman]

First of all, this is very good work. The buttstock is nicely done. Thin the forestock by showing more pipe. Leave no hint of anything flat here. You may be able to show more barrel as well, and go a little thinner side to side. Feather the stock into into the pipe channel, then smooth of the edge, nothing more. No flat spots on the bottom
Patchbox lid is to "square" and thick. Feather the edges into the stock.
Really good work. Natural ability.

[J.Cundiff]

Well, it is from a Chambers pre-carve... so I don't know that I can take much credit for the architecture... but I've tried to go easy and not overdo anything. I will thin down the pipe channel, and show more barrel as well. I hadn't noticed it looking at the gun in person, but as soon as I started looking at the photos, and others mentioned it, it was very obvious that I need to show more barrel.

The patchbox lid is scary... it seems so delicate... I will thin it down some more though. I guess worst case scenario I just have to make another one, right? Not like it would kill me... and I'd probably learn more.

Mr. Shipman, I don't know if you saw it, but I was going to basically try to replicate the carving you did on your recently finished Early Schroyer copy of RCA 95 I believe. That carving is just... wow. It took my breath away when I saw the pics of that rifle. It's not overly complex, but it just fits so well and flows beautifully. That rifle really turned out phenomenally.

[TMerkley]

Looks a heck of a lot better than mine!!!!! Even unfinished    Sure wish I knew about this website in '09.  Keep up the good work!

[smallpatch]

All of Bill's suggestions I totally agree with .  You'd be surprised just how thin you can make a box lid.  It also seems a bit wide in my opinion.
The only other thing that I see is maybe to taper the area from the nose cap back a little closer to the front rod pipe.

Over all, your gun looks real nice.  Good inletting, nice crisp lines.  If this is your first gun, you're off to a fine start!!

[Stophel]

Perhaps it can still be changed if you want, but I think it would look much better if there weren't such an abrupt, pronounced scoop around the lock panels.  The lock panels and moulding should look like a wet leaf was gently laid on the sides of the stock, if that makes sense.  It should flow naturally into the wrist and fore end.  

And I don't think the box lid is too thick.  To square, yes, but not too thick.  Make it into a nice rounded low dome.   

[J.Cundiff]

Okay, let me make sure I'm clear here.

I have the suggestions for the patchbox lid and showing more barrel and ramrod, I think I understand those suggestions.

Smallpatch, you said, "taper the area from the nose cap back a little closer to the front rod pipe." I think what you're saying is to make the transition angle from the nosecap into the ramrod channel longer and with a shallower angle, so that it more gradually transitions and puts the start of the maximum width of the ramrod channel closer to the front pipe, correct?

Stophel, I definitely am not done working on the lock panels... been avoiding them and saving them for the last thing before carving. You're saying to basically use a larger round file to get a larger radius on the transition from the stock to the flat of the panel, which would lessen the "steepness" of the transition, correct?

After looking at some more examples of patchbox lids, I'm confident I know what to do there, and the next pics should show some definite improvement there.

Thanks you guys! This really helps a lot!

John

[Stophel]

There generally isn't a "radius" around the lock panels (with exceptions on some gun types).  It's not exactly a straight line, but it's not a hard curve either.  I'll try to come up with some visual examples. 

Look at the "lock panels" thread here.   

[Roger Fisher]

Looking at top view the side of the stock, at least on l side, couple or so inches behind the muzzle cap looks a bit bulbous (spelling) read fat.  Suggest use a long straight  edge along sides and you may find some hills and valleys.  Easy to fix now.   Top of stock behind breech would look better if more wood was removed to line up more with the two oblique flats. If she were mine I would file back the ends of front sight base a bit.  

[Stophel]

Note how this one has a light amount of concavity at the front of the panels, but the rear flows almost straight down into the wrist.

Now, sometimes, they did things different, but still it would blend in nicely like this one here:




I can't find any images of actual Lancaster guns online that would be all that useful.  Maybe I can when I get home.

[Acer Saccharum]

Thanks for the neat pics, Herr Stophel. The underside wrist shot illustrates the 'flowing stock' underneath the carving.

My theory about stocking and carving is that the form of the gun has to be viewed WITHOUT the panels, WITOUT the carving, so that the stock is a continuous flowing form running from buttstock to wrist to forestock.



But of course, it's not ethical to glue the carvings and panels on after the stock is shaped, so one must try to envision this flow as best he can.


In the above photo, the plane of the tang is higher than the plane of the wrist, so the carving serves as a transition from one plane to the other.

[Stophel]

Tom, your drawing is exactly what I meant when I said it should look like a wet leaf gently laid on the stock.     Lock panels laid on and then softly blended to the existing stock.

[westerner]

Looks very good to me John.  I'll take it!   

   Joe.

 

[J.Cundiff]

I got it. Great pics, thanks. I have RCA Vol. 1 and TotKRGA, as well as Recreating, Grenville, Dixon's, and Gunsmithing Tips & Techniques, so I can go through those again and pay closer attention to the lock panels, but I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying now.

Roger, thanks for the straightedge idea... I still have more wood to remove up there, so yes, I will use that trick and make sure there aren't any little pregnant spots. I did also plan on trimming the front sight, in fact I have the lines drawn on it to do so, I just haven't cut it yet.

Thank you for the help, and the kind compliments. 

[smylee grouch]

I was just wondering if the box lid would look better if it was tappered ever so slightly in width from the butt to the front end .     Smylee