Author Topic: Supply for large head lock bolts? (Read 11083 times)

Darrin McDonal · « **on:** May 08, 2012, 10:54:44 PM »

Ok I have checked all my ussual sources for these and cant find them yet. Do any of you have a source for lock bolts with heads 7/16" dia ? These things are really getting expensive when purchased 1 at a time, which I have no interest in. 20 at a time would be bettet.
Thanks
Darrin

JDK · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2012, 10:59:25 PM »

Have you tried searching the old posts. I want to say Taylor posted something on making his own....i.r.c.....I know somebody did.

J.D.

T*O*F · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2012, 11:07:36 PM »

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=376/Product/BLANK-SCREW-KIT

You don't have to buy the whole assortment, just the refills you need. You will need to cut your own slots and thread them.

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2012, 11:24:30 PM »

Realized I didn't have any on hand recently and bulked at the prices plus shipping and waiting so I decided to make my own. I took round stock of the appropriate diameter and built a head on the end the way the old blacksmiths made bolts. If you have an oxy/acet. torch its pretty easy. Hot form a loop on the end of the stock that fits snug around the same diam. rod. You could use a little larger rod for the loop if you want really big heads. Drill a hole the size of the rod in a small piece of heavy plate for a forming die. Cut the loop off a little short so you have a slightly open donut. Slip this on the end of the bolt stock after wire brushing every thing clean. Leave a little of the rod stick out of the donut to give a little more metal here on the head. Heat to dull red and flux with 20 Mule Team Borax and then heat to bright yellow or welding heat and tap the little donut closed on the bench anvil. If everything is right the loop will weld shut and weld to the shaft all at the same time. drop the rod while its still hot into the die and shape the head with a little ball pein. True up with file either in lathe or drill and cut slot and thread.

Darrin McDonal · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2012, 11:53:48 PM »

Thanks guys.
David, that sounds like a real good way to do it but I am not positive I got exactly what you mean. Basiclly hack saw off a round chunk of "head" diameter rod stock and hammer weld it to a shaft diameter rod? I think you may have a good, useful tutorial on your hand

?

Darrin

Gary Tucker · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2012, 11:59:08 PM »

When I want a lockbolt with a large diameter head I get some carriage bolts and chuck them into the drill press or even just a drill and file off the threads and trim the head to the size wanted and cut the slot with a saw and your finished. Very easy to do. I watched Hershel House do that on my Betamax with his tapes on building back in the 80's I think.

Darrin McDonal · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2012, 12:05:39 AM »

Yep Gary, that did occur to me. If ordering them (aka save a little time) dont work, I will make them. Davids method sounds intriguing.
Darrin

Bob Roller · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2012, 12:20:36 AM »

I send cross bolts out with every lock I make. I use 12L14 in whatever diameter is needed and then put it in a lathe and turn the shank and then run a collet die under power on it an whack it off with a parting tool. I changed a 6" Atlas lathe into a screw machine in 1974 after using it for a conventional small lathe since 1964. I made a loing cross slide and two tool holder blocks on opposite sides of the collet that are adjusted to cut the screws to the correct thickness of the head. I make all my screws and like to make the narrow "V"slots that set the custom work apart from Sprawl Mart or regular hardware store stock.
How long does it take to file a bolt down that is spinning in a drill press chuck? Sounds labor intensive to me.
I make the 7/16 bolts often,usually in 10x32 but can do about any thread needed including 10x40 or 10x24. I have a minimum charge of $5 for any of this special stuff and if you buy three,I pay the USPS on them. What length and head style?
Bob Roller

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2012, 01:22:59 AM »

I was having trouble finding bolts with big enough heads, so have been making them for a while. I was told that Davis has them though. Worth checking.

Pete G. · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2012, 02:47:22 AM »

R.E. Davis has them in both flat and domed head, #8 & #10. 1/2" dia head x 2-1/4" long. For some reason they are listed under accessories.

Dphariss · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2012, 03:56:24 AM »

Quote from: Darrin McDonal on May 08, 2012, 10:54:44 PM

Ok I have checked all my ussual sources for these and cant find them yet. Do any of you have a source for lock bolts with heads 7/16" dia ? These things are really getting expensive when purchased 1 at a time, which I have no interest in. 20 at a time would be bettet.
Thanks
Darrin

Unless you have large enough order for someone with a automatic screw machine to set up and run you have to pay the small lot price.

Dan

Darrin McDonal · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:30:49 AM »

Alright Thank you. I will check RE Davis, but I may be giving you a call Bob if they dont have 'em large enough.
Darrin

Bob Roller · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:28:59 PM »

I do quite a bit of "one off"work and still will. I have never liked production work although I did a lot of it making parts for the coal mines in other shops. I still make up parts for long defunct cars like Packard and Duesenberg from time to time. I made transmission bearings from bearing grade bronze for the Packard Ultramatic and once told a parts dealer that I can't make less than one of anything and the same goes for muzzle loaders.

Bob Roller

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:56:38 PM »

I almost always make my own. The production ones heads too square, not big enough, slots too wide.

Wah, wah, wah, I won't go on, because I like what I like, and I usually have to make it because I don't like the store bought ones.

But the downside is that you need a lathe.

But a man can't truly be complete without a lathe, really, so you should plan to get one.

sscrm13 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2012, 05:57:43 PM »

Darrin
Send me a PM I might be able to help. I have a forge and we can probably figure out how to make some. I always wanted to make some of my own. I will ask a few people on how the go about it but it is probably similar to using a header when making nails.

Scott S.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2012, 06:21:24 PM »

Nice looking domed head screws. I frequently make the heads of the cross screws to match the hammer screw. I think it was John Bivins that years ago wrote about the wretchd quality of scews available to gunmakers and one comment was that the slots looked like the Grand Canyon. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is filing or grinding a screw driver to fit the slots in whatever screws are being installed or removed. I once got an irate call from a fellow that said my screw slots in a lock he had were too narrow and I told him to carefully file the screw driver to match the slots and the answer was "Huh"? He had never heard of such a thing and I told him the screws were installed with a small screw driver that had been reshaped for that one particular job.
I suppose there are a lot of mechanically challenged people out there and we must help them thru the job.

Bob Roller

Long Ears · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2012, 07:40:25 PM »

Bob, I sure wish I lived next door to you! Your wealth of experience and knowledge is amazing. You wouldn't be able to get me out of your shop. Thanks for sharing it so freely. Bob

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2012, 07:48:43 PM »

That's one thing that gets me too. A while back I ordered some tang screws and the quality was pitiful. The slots were huge to the point of being unusable. An example of junk being supplied in the muzzleloading industry. Now to be clear, I'm not looking for paper thin slots, just something reasonable. Also, I like to use a knife file to re-cut all the screws on a gun. The taper is appropriate and a properly shaped screwdriver fits well. Basically one screw driver will pretty much fit all the screws on the gun. Wood screws are another matter. It's rare to find any with reasonable slot width and the overall quality is usually pretty crappy. I end up pounding the slots shut in a countersunk plate, reshaping and cutting the slots again. Seems simple, but a lot of time wasted.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2012, 09:25:11 PM »

Long Ears,
I don't keep anything away from people who really want to know about a subject I have knowledge about. I have had a lot of experiences,some superb,some mediocre but learned from all of them. I told a young man only yesterday that if he quit learning,he was dead from the neck up. He was with my Urologist and was a medical student at the Marshall University Med School.
There seems to be and always has been a mind set that says anything made for a muzzle loader has to be junk or at least it seems that way to me. Fortunately some of us reject that idea and do "our thing"with no regard for those who support the idea of junkyard parts for guns or anything else. The late Tom Dawson said to me that the muzzleloader has an appeal to those who go thru life always trying to build "on the cheap" as he put it. His wok with the various types of Hawken rifles was stunning and they bring big bucks today.
Thanks for your nice remarks about me,I do appreciate them.

Bob Roller

Eric Smith · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2012, 12:36:30 AM »

Excuse my ignorance or lack of experience, but how do the screw/bolts sets at TOTW compare? Up until this thread, that is the only place I had considered purchasing from.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2012, 04:41:54 AM »

I think their slots are too big, and sometimes the heads aren't big enuff, and the pre-threaded ones the thread goes up too far on the shank. So I buy unthreaded, and only thread as much as I need to get thru the lockplate.

But if the head diameter fits what your plan is, then use 'em.

I just get really fussy in my old age. Cranky. I want what I want, even tho' I have less and less control. Something's gotta give somewhere.

T

Long Ears · « **Reply #21 on:** May 10, 2012, 05:30:16 AM »

E. Smith, I was the same way when I started out I didn't know there was other places to get supplies. I purchased a Lancaster parts set from Chambers and thought I had died and gone to heaven. Check out their lock bolts. They won't work for everything but they are or were well made. Bob

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2012, 05:49:07 AM »

You don't have to have a lathe to make bolts. All you need is an oxey/acet. torch and a file and drill. Use the torch to "forge weld" a donut on a rod of the same diameter you want your bolts. Shape with hammer, chuck in drill and dress with file. Cut and thread to whatever length you want and make your slots how you like them.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2012, 04:46:18 PM »

I suppose bolts can be made with the torch and rods but I can't visualize a shop without at least one lathe, I am oriented to accuracy but also realize necessity is the mother of invention.
A number of people have talked about filing a taper into a mainspring and that is OK in the absence of a better way. I use a milling machine with an angled holding fixture and finish with a file. Less fatigue using the mill.

Bob Roller

Eric Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2012, 01:17:08 AM »

I just measured one of the lock bolts I have from TOTW and the head is about 1/4". I gather /from this thread that period correct is about 7/16". (they forgot to list the lock bolt dimentions in RCA!

) So I went back to my HHouse DVD and watch hime do it again,this time wwith an eye towards actually needing to know how to do this. Seems quite doable. So my question is this, for those who have handled originals, what size is period correct. Also, if I go to thee local hardware in search of carriage head bolts, what material should these be made of to be right. Dont think I've ever bought a carrige bolt in my whole life, but some did come with my daughters swing set some years ago.

I want any rifle I make to look right. If your gonna do it, do it right, or just leave it alone.

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Author Topic: Supply for large head lock bolts? (Read 11083 times)

sscrm13