Dies to cut bolt threads

[Eric Smith]

Ok, I can get a 10-32 die from Grizzly for 5$ or a 10-32 die from MSC for 40$ Whats  the best value. I am making lock bolts from carriage bolts and need to thread them. Bought the carriage bolts at Lowes. Zinc plated, but that's all gone now.

[Acer Saccharum]

The Grizzly is certainly a low quality tool, but may do the job. Made in China, for sure.

The MSC tool you will get years of use out of, and is also most likely made in China or Mexico, but to higher standards of precision and material quality.

 if you will be cutting the occasional thread, buy the Grizzly.


Ps. I buy lots of endmills and taps in my trade, and many good old USA brands, such as Cleveland Forge, MoMax, etc, are now made out of the USA. So paying more does not mean you're buying in the USA, just better quality.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Ok, I can get a 10-32 die from Grizzly for 5$ or a 10-32 die from MSC for 40$ Whats  the best value. I am making lock bolts from carriage bolts and need to thread them. Bought the carriage bolts at Lowes. Zinc plated, but that's all gone now.

I'll second what Acer stated. I will add that the $5.00 die is a carbon steel die and will wear out after a short while if cutting tool steel but then it makes a good chasing die to clean up threads. The $40 die is made out of HSS and will last 10 + times longer if cutting low carbon steel as your carriage bolts. In either case you need to use a tapping fluid (NOT just any oil)to reduce wear to the die and keep it cutting at its best - a Moly tapping lube is very good. Good luck 

[oldiemkr]

E. Smith,

If I assume you are in or near Augusta , Ga. you might try any Machinst supply places or even some old time hardware stores. You might come across some new/old stock at a reasonable price. 10/32 is pretty common.

The OD of the die will be a factor but $40.00 for one seems high. A HSS adjustable die is probably the best buy.

[Chris Treichel]

both lowes and home depot sell Irwin carbide taps and dies and you can get an entire set of them for about $20 which will include a 10-32 and other common sizes.

just checked and the set includes 6-32 NC, 8-32 NC, 10-24 NC, 10-32 NF, and 1/4"-20 NC as well as the chuck

[kutter]

40 bucks for small dia common size die seems pricey to me,,but I'm no machinist. Everythings gone up.

If you're just going to make some bolts, tap some holes, ect while making a few guns for yourself,,you can get by with an inexpensive set I would think. I did and still have them after 40yrs!.


Unless you're going into production or doing some sort of super precision work, they'll do fine.
Look what the original makers used.

[flehto]

Bought a #10-32, #10/24, #8-32 and a #6-32 from Menards for less than $5 each...they're made in Japan, don't know the steel but for occassionally adding a few threads or resizing oversize  tang and lock  bolts, they work just fine. Use them a couple times a year and the total cost was below $20......Fred

[T*O*F]

A set is nice for when you need to occasional off-size.  I have 2 standard sets and one metric set (one each Snap-On and one cheapo).  However, you're going to break a lot of taps regardless of who makes them.  It takes a goodly amount of time to develop a feel for the breaking point of each one.  Even then, you will still break some.

Go to  www.use_enco.com and order half a dozen each of 8-32 and 10-32 taps to have on hand.  Get the ones made for thru tapping.  Whenever you break one, you regrind the broken edge to make a bottoming tap out of it.

While you're there, order half a dozen individual drill bits in the size you will be making your barrel pins from as they break just about as often.

I also do all my tapping and threading in a drill press whenever possible, instead of free hand.  That way you can start everything square.  Turn the chuck by hand with the other on the downfeed.

[Acer Saccharum]

Tap wrench for just what Dave is describing above, but makes life, oh, so much easier:

1) go to McMAster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#tap-wrenches/=hl9uzo

2)scroll down to the tap wrench described as 'Machine Mount with Guide'

This uses the drill chuck to hold the guide end of the wrench, leaving your hands to turn the tap wrench.

Drill the hole
Lift spindle
install guide, insert wrench with tap
Bring spindle down, lock spindle in place with tap just over the hole.
Turn tap by hand until threaded.
Back tap out of hole, lift spindle.

Hole is tapped on same axis as drilled hole. No breakage from cocking the tap anymore.

[Bob Roller]

CARBIDE taps and dies for $20 a set?? I am thinking probably CARBON taps and dies.If they are real carbide,that is a special buy and a bargain. Carbon taps can be annealed if the need arises but high speed presents another set of problems.The 6x32 is common but a weak screw and I never use them in lock making.
The 6x40 is the better one and on rare jobs,I use the 6x48 Bridle and sear screws are usaually 4x40 but sometimes I make 4x48s. My sear screws have a stub thread and the smooth shank the sear turns on is below the inner surface of the lock plate so the torque of the mainspring at full cock is not on the threads.

Bob Roller

[Acer Saccharum]

Stay away from Carbide taps or dies.

Speaking of taps, and a point that Bob brings up: carbon taps can be annealed. High speed steel taps cannot(by the home machinist) be annealed. So If you break a tap off in a lockplate, you can anneal it if you used a carbon tap. If you used high speed steel tap, you will have to get it burned out with EDM(Electrical Discharge Machining)

[flehto]

To start the tap in line w/ the hole, I turn the drill press on and then off and while the spindle is coasting, bring the tap into the hole. A few threads are cut and the job is finished in the vice. When I was on the bench, we regularly tapped in the drill press using the reverse button to break the chips until full depth was achieved.  Had a tapping chuck, but it was only used for blind holes.....Fred

[Chris Treichel]

Ok, dug my set of Irwin taps out of the box and it acually doesn't say what their made of... attracts a magnet so probably hardened steel sticker says $24 so not a bad. Maybe I keep dreaming my tools are better than they are.  Well, they work well enough.  Say their made in the USA of global components... wonder what that is supposed to mean.  The individual taps and dies are marked Hanson.

[Habu]

I think I was 35 or so years old before I got the nerve to order less-than-a-dozen taps at the same time.  My breakage rates went down about the same time I got a drill press in my shop here at home. 

But it sounds like I've been missing something--how are you guys using a drill press when threading rod for bolts and such? 

[welafong1]

tell me how did you get rid of the Zinc plateing ?
thank you
richard westerfield

[Habu]

If you soak plated screws in muriatic acid for a few minute, it will dissolve the zinc.  Do it outside, and rinse thoroughly afterwards.  You can also remove it by heating them with a torch and then wire-brushing the crud off.

[T*O*F]

how are you guys using a drill press when threading rod for bolts and such? 

It takes 3 hands......one to hold the die stock on the press table, one to turn the chuck, and one to work the downfeed.  I use my chin for the last one.  I suppose the size of your drill press is a concern, especially if it's a small one.  Once you get a couple of threads started, you can get rid of the chin.

[Acer Saccharum]

For threading male threads with a die on a drill press or lathe:

Check out the

Die Holders for Round Threading Dies

On McMaster-Carr's site. http://www.mcmaster.com/#threading-die-holders/=hloxcw

Scroll to the bottom of the page, and there is a nifty die holder that chucks in the tailstock of your lathe or drill press.

[kutter]

I burn the zinc (cadium?) plating off hardware store screws and bolts if I need to use one. A propane torch makes quick work of it as Habu said. Probably not the 'green' way but there probably isn't one for the small operator.
Do it outside if you're doing a bunch. Nasty fumes. A quick touch to the wire wheel when cooled off and everything is steel again.

My old  set has the hex shaped threading dies. If I do want to use the drill press, I just lock the flat sided die in the vise jaw and it's a 2 handed operation.
I usually thread with the die stock though. It has a set of 3 self centering jaws on the starter side to line up, lock and hold the die stock square with the piece you're threading.
Maybe they all have that feature,,I don't know. It's a common size T&D  set, 'Craftsman'!,,& 50yrs old.

Years back, I used to be able to walk into a Sears and hand them a broken tap, and they'd give me a new one. Craftsman guarantee. No more though.

[Eric Smith]

Someone posted somewhere that you can take the plating off (zink/black oxide) by soaking them in vinegar for a bew days. Don't know if it works. Haven't tried it yet. It was in the archives.

[Bob Roller]

Acer and others that may be interested. Our son,Eric has taken pictures of my Atlas Model 618 lathe and Dennis said he will post them Thursday. They show a cross screw as a blank and threaded as well. I make all my own die olders and no two are alike and maybe not even one is alike. I sometimes use little hexagon dies that are a 5/8"hex and mount them in a 6 point socket and secure them with an Allen set screw. Simple "Cheep" and works fine. This is shown in the pictures along with a collet adaptor I made for the #2 Morse taper collets and it has an internal thread of 1"x10TPI and replaces the Jacobs chuck for most all of my lock internal screws which are usually 4x40 or 48 and threaded with an acorn or collet die.
Eric also took some pictures of a Rigby caplock that I finished this week for a customer but I will send them at a later date,maybe.
Bob Roller

[bluenoser]

I burn the zinc (cadium?) plating off hardware store screws and bolts if I need to use one. A propane torch makes quick work of it as Habu said. Probably not the 'green' way but there probably isn't one for the small operator.
Do it outside if you're doing a bunch. Nasty fumes. A quick touch to the wire wheel when cooled off and everything is steel again.

I wouldn't recommend burning zinc plating off bolts.  I don't know how the toxicity of zinc plating compares to galvanizing but I know welders have died trying to weld galvanized metal.  As I understand it, the fumes are deadly.  Perhaps another member has a clearer understanding of the risks associated with vaporizing zinc or cadmium plating.  In the meantime, better to play it safe.

Laurie

[kutter]

I realize the toxic fumes from torch cutting galv steel. I got very sick and was hospitalized for nearly a month  from torch cutting guard rails for a DOT project.  That was in the late 60's.
Lots of multicolored smoke and fumes. No protection. That's the way it was.

As to clearing the plating from a wood or machine screw w/a torch,,I feel better doing it with a propane flame than any acids. If it takes 10 seconds in the flame it's alot. Do it outside,,don't inhale .
I'm still alive and in my 60's.
With all the chemicals, things that go boom and sharp pointy things we play with in this hobby & business, clearing a screw of plating is the least of worrys.

Better yet,,make some from stock, or buy a few from one of the M/L suppliers.
Leave the China & Mexico import plated  junk at the Home Depot.



 

[Ky-Flinter]

tell me how did you get rid of the Zinc plateing ?
thank you
richard westerfield

I use Tidy-Bowl toilet bowl cleaner.  Submerge screw in a small cup.  Only takes a few minutes.  Rinse with water.

-Ron

[Dphariss]

Ok, I can get a 10-32 die from Grizzly for 5$ or a 10-32 die from MSC for 40$ Whats  the best value. I am making lock bolts from carriage bolts and need to thread them. Bought the carriage bolts at Lowes. Zinc plated, but that's all gone now.

Cheap taps (especially) and dies are seldom a bargain. I try to stay at least with some name brand. Prices on cutting tools, taps, dies end mills etc have gone up significantly in the past 3-4 years. But its impossible to work without tools.
I would not buy a tap or a die or dirill from Grizzly or Harbor Freight etc. Its just asking for problems.
The low end import stuff from MSC is usually China. The higher priced stuff may be from any where, US, Europe, some place in Asia, Japan, Taiwan.
I prefer split dies so I can adjust the size for a closer fit.

Dan