Doping wind and r/b shooting

[FRJ]

As many know I've been gone from muzzleloading for a number of years and am just getting back into it. Yesterday I went out to do some longer range shooting. My rifle is very accurate and initially I wanted to test different loads at different ranges to see what I could do to keep hitting on point of aim with changing yardage and load. BUT the wind was predominate from my left and gusting from, my guess 0 to 30 mph. Out to 60 yards it didn't have a lot of effect on shot placement but once I got past that the balls were going so far right that they were just off the paper. It seemed as though it was also pushing them up.It also seemed to be going in several directions at once!!!!From what I learned yesterday I wouldn't take a shot over 50 yards at a deer in those conditions and probably not past 60 yards at an elk. What I also learned is that I have a lot to learn about wind doping with r/b's. It's a whole different world from bullets and I'm eager to learn. FRJ

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Wind can make an enormous difference between a good hit and a clean miss.

In 1981, I attended the Canadian National Black Powder Championship matches in Ratters Corner, New Brunswick.  There was the remnants of a hurricane off the east coast, which gave us a steady and hard cross wind.  One match was the 100 yard bullseye target.  It required 10 shots offhand.  the targets were about 5' apart, but after only a few shots, it was plain that one had to shoot to the left to hit your own target.  It was tricky because an identifiable cross fire on someone else's target was deducted from your score.  I won the match with a score of 19 out of a possible 100.  I was actually aiming at the bull on the target to my right.  That's around 5' of drift.

[bob in the woods]

I did the same, ie aimed at the target over. It was at the 1000 yd matches in Ottawa. Aimed a target 17 but scored on 18    I ran out of windage on my sights. Drift was  38 ft.   Shooting the 200 yd round ball matches in Kingston Ont. in 1988, my .54 cal ball was drifting  8 + feet.   Learning to dope the wind is good, and you learn a lot by shooting in various conditions,  but.....you should keep notes.
I have notes from my matches/practice shoots with everything , wind, temp., load etc etc.  Consulting my notes has helped me get on paper with my first sighter.  When shooting round ball, we often shoot 7 rounds, with the best 5 used for score.  Get a notebook 

[BrownBear]

From what I learned yesterday I wouldn't take a shot over 50 yards at a deer in those conditions and probably not past 60 yards at an elk.

That's really sound for hunting.  I live in the land of wind, with the National Weather Service reporting to the effect that we have measurable air movement 93% of the time. I won't "dope" wind on animals simply because a sudden change in velocity and direction can easily wound.

For a lark I sometimes shoot on the ocean, using floating kelp balls at assorted ranges for targets.  You can immediately see your misses at all ranges, and can shoot about as far as you can see the target.  It's really eye-opening, and illustrates one of the greatest needs I see for hotter loads.  The difference in wind drift between a mild load that is "adequate" for killing deer and a hot load at 50 yards is startling.  But with RBs even a hot load drifts enough to wound at 100 yards.

[Habu]

Winds here were mild yesterday, and consistent.  I posted 2) 6-bull targets side-by-side.  Once I figured I needed to hold on the fifth bull from the left, top row, I got a fair group in the left-most bull. 

That load (80 grains FFg in a .54) shoots nice groups and is "adequate" for deer under the right conditions, but I'd hesitate to use it for hunting.  As BrownBear suggests, it makes the case for hotter hunting loads to counteract wind drift to the extent possible.  I'll probably continue shooting the 80 grain load for plinking and targets, but I'll also be working up a heavier load.

[Dphariss]

Wind can make an enormous difference between a good hit and a clean miss.

In 1981, I attended the Canadian National Black Powder Championship matches in Ratters Corner, New Brunswick.  There was the remnants of a hurricane off the east coast, which gave us a steady and hard cross wind.  One match was the 100 yard bullseye target.  It required 10 shots offhand.  the targets were about 5' apart, but after only a few shots, it was plain that one had to shoot to the left to hit your own target.  It was tricky because an identifiable cross fire on someone else's target was deducted from your score.  I won the match with a score of 19 out of a possible 100.  I was actually aiming at the bull on the target to my right.  That's around 5' of drift.

I shot at a deer at about 100 once with a 50 RB and the ball went off her butt. Wondered what the heck!?
Loaded the rifle and home was in the direction of the deer so I walked a few yards and found that the wind was really blowing up the steep coolee she was on the far side of. No trees and I could not hear it.
Drift was about 4 ft.
Its hard to tell even with wind flags, to see a wind change that can move a RB 1-2" at 60 yards.
Dan

[FRJ]

My elk load for this 54 cal GPR is 110 gr Goex 2F with a PRB. Guess I had better start shooting it regularly just to dope out how much wind does effect the balls drift. Sure has been an eye opener. Now I'm thinking that 60 yards on either deer or elk may be my max as I just can't stand to wound an animal. Since I've been hunting with a longbow for the last 21 years its really no problem to get within 60 yards as I'm used to getting under 20.I'm not going to muzzleloaders to make longer shots just to add a little different challenge to the hunt. FRJ

[LH]

Last fall at Friendship I was talking to a long time bench shooter about doping wind and he told me to watch the windflags,  if they're moving,     "DONT SHOOT"  when they stop moving and hang straight down,   shoot.   

[Dphariss]

Last fall at Friendship I was talking to a long time bench shooter about doping wind and he told me to watch the windflags,  if they're moving,     "DONT SHOOT"  when they stop moving and hang straight down,   shoot.   

If we did that here we would never shoot.
10 mph with a few gusts is  good day. Bad days require bringing the target backer back and/or waiting till the "squall" blows through. We have a pile of graded blades for "stabilizers" when needed.
If you can't read the wind indicators and hold for it you lose.

Dan

[Dphariss]

My elk load for this 54 cal GPR is 110 gr Goex 2F with a PRB. Guess I had better start shooting it regularly just to dope out how much wind does effect the balls drift. Sure has been an eye opener. Now I'm thinking that 60 yards on either deer or elk may be my max as I just can't stand to wound an animal. Since I've been hunting with a longbow for the last 21 years its really no problem to get within 60 yards as I'm used to getting under 20.I'm not going to muzzleloaders to make longer shots just to add a little different challenge to the hunt. FRJ

Unless the ML season is ahead of the bow season it may not be all that easy. By the end of bow season where I hunt the elk are generally pretty well educated for the year by the time the bow hunters are done scaring the daylights out of the bulls by calling them in and then deciding they are "not good enough to shoot".
I talked to a guy down at the gun shop a few years ago who had educated about 20 before finding one he wanted to shoot.
The wolves killing (as opposed to eating) about 30000-40000 elk since reintroduction in the area has not helped either. Calf survival is almost non-existent in some areas.

If you live in the west and especially if you hunt or ranch you really need to see this film
 http://cryingwolfmovie.com/the-film/
Its the side of wolf reintroduction that is not "PC" enough for the news media to cover. The dirty little secret if you will.
They are expanding exponentially and will be eating elk and deer and anything else that walks in YOUR area  in a few years.
Dan

[Al Lapp]

FRJ Thanks for bringing this subject up. Although we don't get that much strong winds here (mostly timber hunting) I found it a real eye opener.  Al

[Daryl]

We get some winds, but not like Saskatchewan- which are very much like Montana and Wyoming.