Rip saws and cutting blank stocks

[Eric Smith]

I have a lynx rip saw I plan to use to cut my 1st rifle from a blank. Promised myself I would restrain from buying a bandsaw till I had made at least 5 or 6 using a rip saw/ traditional tool. I know a builder who makes his living building longrifles would use a bandsaw. What I would like is some feedback from those who do use only a rip saw, and maybe a few tips. One day I will buy a bandsaw and will use it exclusively, but for now as a beginner I feel it would be best if I learn to do it the old fashioned way. Part of the fun.

[Acer Saccharum]

I used to inlet barrels by hand, and have found that it is not fun.

I always thought a frame saw would be perfect for cutting out blanks. But it's hard to find the right blade for the job. Dry 3" maple is a chore for a hand saw.

I saw a stock blank from an old gunsmith estate, looked like it had been roughed out with a hatchet. Were blanks split out, then shaped with an ax while green, then cured?

Probably done every which way, depending on what tools were available.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I built a Hawken rifle once and did not have a bandsaw.  So I laid out my profile on the wood, and then cut a series of 1/2" holes around the whole profile, just outside the drawing.  Then it was simple to use the rip saw to join the dots.  I took the wood down to the profile lines with a Stanley Surform and an aggressive rasp I call "jaws".  That was a great upper body workout.  Then I had a blank from which to start.

[rich pierce]

I've used a frame saw and a rip saw and the rip saw is easier to keep the cut square or perpendicular.  Pace yourself.

[Acer Saccharum]

Pace yourself.

Don't give advice you can't follow.

[flehto]

To cut the shape into a blank when I first started out, I used a hand held "Skillsaw" and  when my wife "visited' me in the shop and saw what I was doing, she said..."I'm going upstairs and not watch this". So...I bought a 14" bandsaw and now she'll watch....Fred

[bob in the woods]

I did my first one with my small chain saw     My bandsaw was set up for cutting guitar tops, and I didn't want to change it 

[Tim Crosby]

 A frame saw may be more to your liking.  Cut out side the line and plane/rasp back.

   
http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3




   Tim C.

[chuck-ia]

I am on my 4th gun from a blank, used a band saw on the first 3, seems once I turn the band saw on my blood pressure goes up and I get nervous, knowing bad things can happen when I use electricity. I have since bought a rip saw,(probably same one you have), I can make a more accurate cut with the rip saw, it is slower and more work than the band saw, but I will continue to use it. For me, power tools is not allways the answer. I like doing it more the traditional way. chuck

[volatpluvia]

I did almost all mine with a hand rip saw.  It is excellent upper body excersize.  I had quite a bit of experience with hand saws before starting into the madness, so it was natural to go to them.  One stock I used a band saw because my brother was storing it in my garage.  One time I used my company circular saw and got a more square start on the blank.  I never did have to use rasps before getting started on layout of barrel, etc.  I just cut to the lines.  I also used the hand rip saw to cut the top of the forestock down before inletting the barrel.  I used it to reduce the width of the forestock after the barrel was inletted.
I once even used the hand rip saw to rip three planks out of the tree trunk, wild cherry, that is.
It is a very handy tool.
volatpluvia

[Hungry Horse]

I bought an old 10" band saw at a yard sale years ago, that the company didn't make tires for the blade to ride on anymore. I made tires out of friction tape, and had a local saw shop make me some 10 teeth per inch blades for it (per the original owners advice). I have cut some maple stocks that were like cutting stone with it. In fact I have cut pipe stone with it (what a mess). This set up also will cut brass. I found this out from the old guy that I bought it from. He used it to cut out brass clock faces and parts. I cut a couple of trade gun buttplates out of a thick old solid brass threshold I salvaged from an old building.
 With a little practice you can get where you can rough out a stock in no time. Blade width can become a problem. Wide blades don't do turns well, and narrow blades may not run true side to side in thick, and hard, blanks.

                        Hungry Horse

[Jim Kibler]

A rip saw is a fine tool for cutting out a stock blank.  Get a big one of some quality and sharpen it well.  It's really not a terrible task.  For the inside curve at the wrist, just make a series of close cuts perpendicular to the line and then bust out the pieces.  Finish it up by paring down with a big gouge or clean up with a rasp.  Oh, have a good way of securly holding the stock blank while cutting and the job will be much easier.

[Don Getz]

Sorry, no way will I try to saw one out by hand, life is too short.  When you get that gun finished, no one will know how
you made it unless you tell them.  If you want to be that PC, you could throw your phones out the window and revert to
sending post cards, like they did in the early 1900's......Don

[Eric Smith]

Don, I'm gonna get me a bandsaw after a while has passed. But first, I wanna learn to make em with old tools. Having said that, I willl add that I have just about talked myself into a drill press. We're still hashing it out!

[Kermit]

Hand tools are fine. That said, the current guru of hand tool use, Jim Tolpin (The New Traditional Woodworker and other books/articles) has a bandsaw, drill press, and wood lathe in his shop. My little home shop has a bandsaw and lathe only. That 14" Grizzly bandsaw is my workhorse.

Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to give total hand tool use a try. I just wouldn't try it if production and profit are anywhere in the equation.

The "hyperkitten" link to the frame saw is a good one, but you fer sure don't need to buy into the mythos of half-blind dovetails and such. It's a load of $#@* and a time waster if you just want to get a job done and not necessarily impress all the visitors to your shop. The frame saw is the way to go for ripping. You just need to remember that it's best used with the stock held vertically in a vise. Cut halfway down, reverse the stock and cut back to the middle from the other end.

Two words: SHARP, and SLOW. Sharp is self explanatory--or should be. Slow--don't go after it expecting to get the job done an anything like power tool speed. Think "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." Get into the rhythm and enjoy the journey. Or buy the bandsaw now.

You will need a proper RIP blade for that frame saw. You can find them here and there from hand tool suppliers. ECE has bowsaws, which I don't think you want for ripping. It puts the blade on one side of the tool and discourages first-timers trying too cut to a line. The centered blade of the frame saw is a joy to use by comparison. Here's one place to get a new ECE rip blade.

http://www.adriatools.com/ece/saws/bowsaw.html

One final disclaimer: I have NEVER had any blade come to me SHARP--plane, chisel, saw, nothing. Well there was one guy, but he's retired now. You can do worse than the on-line saw sharpening lessons/advice, and sharp tools make all the difference. Powered shops seem to think horsepower is a substitute for tool maintenance.

Get a blade. Build a saw from good wood. Go for it. Come back and tell us how it worked for you.

Okay, a story before I go. When I started butchering wood in the '60's, I worked for a time with a carpenter who was 67 (my gawd, that's how old I am...) and had started his apprenticeship when he was 15. When he arrived at his first jobsite the boss pointed him at a pile of rough full dimension Doug fir construction lumber and a pair of sawhorses. He was handed a 4-point rip saw and set to work. He was working six 10-hour days, and didn't touch another tool for the first three weeks. Meditate on that as you cut out your stock.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I have a bandsaw now; but I cut one stock out of a blank with this Ryoba saw..... it didn't kill me..

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/japaneseikedameryobasaw.aspx

[Bob Roller]

If you want to learn using museum pieces and relics for tools,maybe you can locate one of the old time drill presses that fasten to the wall or an upright post. Bill Large had one of these outside of his shop and it was operational for years but was unused. It was cranked by hand and had an automatic down feed on it to keep pressure on the drill bit. It was a heavy old thing and a real relic of the cast iron age.

Bob Roller

[bob in the woods]

Get Mark Silver's video, all about hand tools and stock work. Using a nice sharp ripping saw is really a joy, and not as much work as some imagine.  As an example, I have a one man cross cut saw for logs etc.
Made in Germany, it is high quality steel, and sharpens well. If I have a small job planned, it is faster and actually easier to use it, rather than get and fire up the chain saw. It cuts through a 6 in log in a surprising few strokes !

[Kermit]

  I've got one of those, Bob! Mine is in the category of "shop decor." Mine is NOT self-feeding. In order to use it, the stock needs to be clamped somehow to a too-small table so you can crank with your right hand while turning a handwheel on the top to feed the bit into the hole. Maybe that's why there are apprentices.

I bought it foolishly thinking it would help keep my soul purer somehow. Not.

[Jay Close]

In years past I roughed out several stocks using a rip saw, backsaw for making stop-cuts along curves and a big chisel to knock out the material between stop-cuts.  Sharp is essential to your well being and quality of the work.

I addressed long straight cuts like a hand tool cabinetmaker might cut out a tenon for a mortise and tenon joint.

Layout the line you want to cut on both sides of the stock. 

With the stock held vertically in a vises, start down one layout line and advance the kerf at an angle well ahead of where  the blade is cutting on the opposite side (the side you can't see). This means you will progessively drop your sawing hand down to make an angled cut.

Then flip the stock so you can see the opposite side. Saw from that side allowing the blade to be guided on the side you can't see by the well- advanced kerf.

When you begin to cut into totally fresh wood, i.e. you've reached the bottom of the angled cut,  advance the kerf along your layout line again, dropping your hand and making an angled cut.

Repeat the process, back and forth from the layout on one side to the layout on the other until you reach the bottom of the cut. You might end up sawing about 6 or 7 inches from one side before turning to the other.

Probably as clear as mud.

[rich pierce]

Very clear to me and it sounds like a great plan to keep it on track.  I will try it next time.

[chuck-ia]

Don, I like the idea of throwing out the phone. chuck-ia

[b bogart]

I have used a rip saw to profile and slim a stock. I confess to using two pieces of angle iron clamped to each side of the stock along the layout lines and carefully following those lines. I attempted to keep from rubbing too hrd on those angles to minimize dulling and ruining the "set" of the saw. I recently have gotten a bandsaw. A little rebuilding and tuning allow me to avoid this again!

[Rich]

I use a 4 1/2 teeth per inch Garlik lynx rip saw for most of the work. This is what Mark Silver recommended and said that he uses. I found that it was difficult to start the cut with such an aggressive saw. I start the cut using a Sears all purpose wood saw. The way I do it is to put the stock in the vise vertically. Get the cut started with the Sears saw and then switch to the Lynx. Periodically, I use my Calipers to make sure I am not canting my cut. I do that by leaving the saw in the cut and using the depth gauge against the blade on each side of the cut. Use a wedge at the top to stop binding once you're down far enough. Due to the fact that the Lynx saw is so deep, it cuts a straight line really well. The blade is also tapered from teeth to the back, so that helps with the binding issue. I would also recommend a ferrier's rasp and a scrub plane as an addition to your stock shaping tools.

[Eric Smith]

Rich, I do have a scrub plane, and a #49 & 50 rasp.