Rip saws and cutting blank stocks

[Don Tripp]

A hacksaw works very well for cutting out the blank. Just turn the blade sideways. The same principle as one of those little English Bowsaws, except the hacksaw works good. It cuts pretty fast too.

[Rich]

Try a ferrier's rasp also. You can really remove a lot of material with it and they're not expensive.

[volatpluvia]

Kermit,
When you described the old carpenter's experience, you described exactly what my father went through when he was sixteen.  They also taught him how to properly sharpen his saw as part of the job experience.
I have always found it a joy to put a sharp blade through good wood.
volatpluvia

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Don, I like the idea of throwing out the phone. chuck-ia

I threw out my cell-phone when I retired in '08, when they were still only phones. I don't even miss it.

[Elnathan]

I second Rich's suggestion to draw lines on both sides of the stock and then cut alternately from both sides. I did that on my second stock, cut with a handsaw, and it work quite well.

[Bill-52]

Started working on my third longrifle, first one from a blank.  I don't have a band saw but I did pick up a couple very good old rip saws at a yard sale.  A little cleanup work on the blades and then had them sharpened and, for a few dollars, I'm good to go.  

Thanks both Jay and Rich for their suggestions here. I used their alternate side cutting method with a wedge to prevent binding. It worked perfectly.  To be honest, one of the easier sawing jobs I've undertaken, which probably means I really need to sharpen my other hand saws.  Sharp certainly makes the cutting and staying on track easier.

Bill

[Mark Elliott]

I have had all the power tools and a good number of hand tools, but  I am gradually getting rid of my power tools and switching to hand tools as I learn to properly sharpen the hand tools.   I have found that hand tools work as well or better than the power tools if they are properly sharpened.   The thing is that that is not a trivial task, particularly with hand saws.   There is so much high skill work to be learned to properly sharpen a saw.   A sharp saw, plane, or chisel,  almost does the work  by itself.    As to a rip saw,  I feel that it does a better job on the forearm cuts than a bandsaw.   A heavy rip saw is going to give you a very straight cut just like a circular saw.     You do need to let the saw and gravity work for you.    I have seen Mark Silver saw out a forearm clamped vertically to his bench.   After researching the proper use of hand saws,  I don't think the old timers would have done it that way.    I think they would have used a saw bench.   That was a new one on me, but apparently, a saw bench is a staple in a hand tool workshop.   You need a saw bench to make your workbench.   With a saw bench,   you would sit on your stock blank on the bench and saw down the center of the bench.   That way,  you are using your weight to your advantage and letting gravity work for you to its greatest advantage.   Also,  you do most of your work sitting down which is great for me.   My legs don't work so good, so I only stand when I absolutely have to.

[WadePatton]

Mark, that is part of what we learned in Timber Frame Workshop this past March-that a properly sharpened handsaw and chisel-can do nearly anything and with great precision.

So i ran out and found some antique cross-cut saws, bought the right files, a saw vise...AND THEN (before found or made a setter) learned of a traveling sharpening service guy who comes through this area every couple of weeks to sharpen all the tools of the woodworking trade.  No need to learn saw sharpening so long as he's doing it--very inexpensively.  I have yet to try the drills he did for me.  The handsaws are a delight to use. 

Of course i bevel and hone my own simple edges-and learning to hone/strop/maintain a straight razor (4 now) in shaving condition elevated my understanding of that process.

[rich pierce]

 You do need to let the saw and gravity work for you.    I have seen Mark Silver saw out a forearm clamped vertically to his bench.   After researching the proper use of hand saws,  I don't think the old timers would have done it that way.    I think they would have used a saw bench.   That was a new one on me, but apparently, a saw bench is a staple in a hand tool workshop.   You need a saw bench to make your workbench.   With a saw bench,   you would sit on your stock blank on the bench and saw down the center of the bench.   That way,  you are using your weight to your advantage and letting gravity work for you to its greatest advantage.   

I'm very interested, Mark.  Not sure but from your description it sounds like a saw bench is just a bench with a slot in it for the saw blade?  Four feet long?  6 feet?  How long and wide might the slot be?

Lacking a really solid workbench, I do some of my planing on the floor.  I put the end of the stock blank up against the wall and can push as hard as I want and nothing moves, springs or chatters, and I'm using my weight and shoulders more than my arms.

[snowdragon]

Before I had a bandsaw, I would use a table saw, hand saw, and a rasp to rough out the side profile, then use a rip saw to slab off the sides. I still use a hand rip saw to slab off the lock side of the butt, since that area is too tall to fit into my little bandsaw. I use a crosscut saw and a chisel to chunk off around the cheekpiece.

A good sharp rip saw will work fine. Like others have said, mark the top and bottom of the cut, flip the stock over constantly to follow the opposing line. And hand tools aren't as scary as subjecting an expensive piece of wood to those high speed, noisy, wood devouring power tools.  They will eat up your wood rather you're on the line or not, and they're hungry . Bill

[Clark Badgett]

I work with noisy machine tools all day long. I am really starting to appreciate the quietness and prescision I can get with hand tools. Last time I tried to use a bandsaw on a blank I ruined it, now I get to try and fix it at some point. One of those Linx saws in in my very near future.

Add me to the list of those interested in a pictures and desription of that saw bench.

[Jim Kibler]

Both hand and power tools can work well.  Each has to be good quality to work at their best and a person needs to know how to use them well.  It sound appealing and somewhat nostalgic to dismiss power tools but they can be very efficient and effective.

[pushboater]

I'm one of those poor souls that doesn't have access to a bandsaw so on my last project, a short barreled 11 gauge smooth bore "canoe gun", I used what I had available to profile out the stock.  A Sawsall!  Worked great!  Just work slow, take your time, and don't get in a hurry.  Took me about 15 min total to profile it out.   You can get extra long blades that will do a good job of roughing out the buttstock also.  It's definitely not what you would call a precision tool so you'll end up working a little longer with a rasp, but it really cut down on my work compared to a handsaw.

[pake]

Good for you pushboater!

Where there's a will there's a way. From what I can see of the picture, there wasn't much blade "wander" on the backside. Those Sawzall blades are stout so if you moved slowly I can see where that would work.

What I 'm having a time visualizing tho is how you straddled that plank to guide the saw?     

pake

I'm one of those poor souls that doesn't have access to a bandsaw so on my last project, a short barreled 11 gauge smooth bore "canoe gun", I used what I had available to profile out the stock.  A Sawsall!  Worked great!  Just work slow, take your time, and don't get in a hurry.  Took me about 15 min total to profile it out.   You can get extra long blades that will do a good job of roughing out the buttstock also.  It's definitely not what you would call a precision tool so you'll end up working a little longer with a rasp, but it really cut down on my work compared to a handsaw.

[pushboater]

Believe it or not, I dropped the tailgate on my Ford Ranger pickup and my next door neighbor sat on it and held it down while I cut it out!

[WadePatton]

In years past I roughed out several stocks using a rip saw, ...

When you begin to cut into totally fresh wood, i.e. you've reached the bottom of the angled cut,  advance the kerf along your layout line again, dropping your hand and making an angled cut.

Repeat the process, back and forth from the layout on one side to the layout on the other until you reach the bottom of the cut. You might end up sawing about 6 or 7 inches from one side before turning to the other.

Probably as clear as mud.

this is how we were taught at TimberFrame to achieve a nearly perfectly square cross-cut.  We'd mark three sides-top and two sides, and then split the line (the other capital trick to good carpentry).  never cutting where you can't see:  cutting top line then down the front-while keeping the saw blade as much in the cut as possible-so the cut itself acts as a guide-difficult at the very first but progressively easier so long as you don't let the cut wander.  SO with the top line cut and the front line cut, you go to the other side and cut down that line.  Easier than it sounds, and wonderfully accurate.  

works in metal too

ABOUT cross-cut saws, I did inquire at the workshop about the difference and our instructor didn't have a ready answer, but that she did know that ripping and crosscut blades are different.  Is it TPI and set/angle or just TPI?.  I'm always looking for bargains in junk store/yard sale tools.

thanks

+++++++++ edit

nevermind, here is what i found at norsewoodsmith.com:


  (and that's enough to pick one out at a sale).

[greybeard]

This is what I use and it must be sharp to tackle maple.
Bob

[heinz]

Wade, a rip saw, designed to cut with the grain, acts like a series  of chisels  pealing off slices along the grain, as your drawing shows the ends of the teeth are square to grain  and generally they are very course, 4 to 8 teeth per inch with little set.  The cross cut is designed to cut across the grain and is a series of small knife points at an angle to the grain.  Agin your picture shows is fairly well.  The cross cut has a compound angle so the knife edge cuts the grin fibers and a wider set to clear the waste out.  If you rescue a good Disston made saw from a yard or barn sale they can readily bee resharpened to either profile.

[Bill-52]

Wade,

I felt lucky to have found the quality of rip saws I did at a yard sale.  It was a neighbor who was cleaning out his barn and out of the couple dozen old hand saws he had, only a few were rip saws, two of which looked like they could be restored (one was a Disston).  Even then, I wasn't sure how well they would take being sharpened.  Only when the guy who sharpened them returned them and commented these were great saws, was I sure it was money well spent.

Have fun searching.

Bill

[WadePatton]

Thanks and yes, by the guy that sharpens all such tools in this area who already sharpened my two X-cut handsaws from junkstores they cut like the hot knife in butter.  I bought 3 saws for $15, third one was a bone saw and sharp.  The trick is finding un-kinked blades without too much pitting.  

It's the same thing (the difference as viewed in the illustration)  we do to the top-plates of saw chain for ripping-albeit the rest of the angles and edges are more complicated than a hand-saw.  

Also have a couple of cross-cut timber saws, but i'm only one-man and they require two.  I'll find a one-johnny at the right price someday.

[Rasch Chronicles]

I've got ten minutes of access!

Got to my friend's blog on saws:

http://thesawblog.com/

You will learn more about saws than you thought possible!

Best regards!
Albert A Rasch

[KLMoors]

Albert- Great to hear from you! Happy holidays.

Cool blog, and he has a picture of one of those benches mentioned earlier in the thread. If it wasn't for my troublesome joints, I'd give this hand saw thing a try.

[Mark Elliott]

I'm very interested, Mark.  Not sure but from your description it sounds like a saw bench is just a bench with a slot in it for the saw blade?  Four feet long?  6 feet?  How long and wide might the slot be?

Rich,

I am sorry I didn't check back on this.   People make saw benches all sorts of ways.  Most are just regular benches about 2x12x30 with round 18" legs morticed in.   Some have a slot or a notch and some don't.    It is just that a bench height allows you to sit or kneel on work to hold it.   When I was a kid,  I used the picnic bench.   We had a picnic table and benches in the basement that I used as my work bench.   I used the table and the benches.   I am planning on building a Nicholson bench for myself very soon and before I do,  I am going to make a couple of matching saw benches.   I saw one that someone else had made on a Google search just by nailing up 1x material.   I think it would be safer for me given my weight.   I also though it was  cut idea to have saw benches matching my big bench.   Of course this isn't so much for gun making as cabinet making.  The Nicholson bench is a jointer's bench,  but a single or double screw vise works much better for holding a gun stock, staff, or table leg, in a vertical position when necessary.   I will make a single screw horizontal vise since I only have one screw and nut.   It is off an old bench.   My grandfather had it hanging in his shop,  my father had it hanging in his shop, and now I am finally going to do something with it.    How is that for a long project?


Here is a link to the bench I am going to make for myself.    Not unlike the old picnic table benches I used to use.   I figure that i can make one bench out of one 1x12x96 that I have in stock.    http://oregonwoodworker.blogspot.com/2011/12/i-mentioned-in-previous-post-that-i.html

You also might be interested in a series of pod casts where a guy builds and Nicholson bench as well as his own saw bench and shows you how to use it.   He uses the saw bench to build the Nicholson bench.  http://logancabinetshoppe.com/blog/2010/04/episode-20/

Mark

[KLMoors]

Here's the pic of one of those benches in action from the blog Albert linked.

[rich pierce]

@Mark, thanks, the Nicholson looks like a great "sturdy but not heavy" bench.  Will you be doing cabinetry/carpentry on it in addition to gunbuilding?  if not will you change the dimensions or stick with the full width and length?