Author Topic: English to replace Small Siler (Read 9566 times)

hanshi · « **on:** May 19, 2012, 10:28:02 PM »

Is there an English style lock that can be fitted to replace a small Siler?
Here's the gun. There is some extra wood for fitting but can it be successfully done?

This is the rifle in question.

Vomitus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2012, 10:37:56 PM »

Check the plate size of an early Ketland.Lots of options if going bigger. Late Ketland is my favourite,but may be small for your mortice.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2012, 10:56:15 PM »

The easiest way to English your lock, is to file the pan round. You can also file to hammer to give it a pigeon breasted look, but that's optional.
I'm building an A.Verner pistol, and from photos of originals, he used locks that had similar shapes to your Siler, but had rounded pans. So I used a Stan Hollenbuagh lock and did some filing...turned out very nice. a year or so ago, someone on this site did the same to a couple of Siler locks, and they too look great. If you inlet a new lock, you're going to run into lots of problems.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2012, 11:12:30 PM »

Your lock plate might be able to be fitted but your lock bolt positions might not fit as well. Just another consideration to think of. Smylee

hanshi · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2012, 11:24:18 PM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on May 19, 2012, 10:56:15 PM

The easiest way to English your lock, is to file the pan round. You can also file to hammer to give it a pigeon breasted look, but that's optional.
I'm building an A.Verner pistol, and from photos of originals, he used locks that had similar shapes to your Siler, but had rounded pans. So I used a Stan Hollenbuagh lock and did some filing...turned out very nice. a year or so ago, someone on this site did the same to a couple of Siler locks, and they too look great. If you inlet a new lock, you're going to run into lots of problems.

Thanks, Taylor; that sounds like a very good option. So basically all I do is file the pan bottom round to get away from that Germanic look? That's the easiest and quickest solution I've heard yet. Never thought of it. Thanks.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2012, 11:38:51 PM »

I just finished a small L&R Manton and it is so close to the small Siler but not quite useable. I sppose the old quip about "cose" is only for grenades,nukes and horse shoes is still valid.

Bob Roller

hanshi · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2012, 11:54:39 PM »

Yep, you're sure right about that. The safest thing for me to do looks like the pan filing mod. I guess I'll go with that.

Bill of the 45th · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2012, 12:17:06 AM »

Hanshi, I thinkSteve Bookout has a tutorial on his site, on how he did it, if not give him an email, and I'm sure he can help, I own the rifle that used to be his homepage pic "Miss Maggie"/Here's his web site. I can post a close up if you like.

http://toadhallrifleshop.com

Couldn't seem to find it, but Bookie probably has the fils archived, He don't bite much if you offer him Moon Pies, and RC Cola.

Bill

kutter · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2012, 12:59:11 AM »

If you can weld or have access to someone that does, the plate can be built up around the edges.
Then reshaped to eliminate the point as well as any other outline changes you might desire.
None of the mechanics are changed, just the shape & outline of the plate.

That along with the already mentioned modifications should make a pretty good looking lock for you.

hanshi · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2012, 02:40:12 AM »

Great help you've given, my friends. I'm pretty sure I can make this work. Thanks.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2012, 03:06:27 AM »

Here are two that one of our own members posted some while back. Forgive me for not giving credit where it is due. My memory, as my buddy Neil says, is like a bunny's tail - short and fuzzy.

bgf · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2012, 03:19:00 AM »

The ones Taylor posted are very nice. One other tweak I think helps is to reduce the radius of the base of the cock slightly (it looks like the one on top did a little bit of that), as it make the lockplate look taller, which is another area I really notice the difference b/t some locks. With the lock already in and presumably working, I'd just make cosmetic modifications, too -- wise choice.

volatpluvia · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2012, 05:10:55 AM »

Could you also round the chamfer on the edge of the plate for a more English Look?
volatpluvia

LynnC · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:48:22 AM »

I still need to polish that top lock Taylor

Hanshi, both of those locks started out as standard small silers and the lock plates filed down to the shapes you now see. So without filling the rear of you lock mortice they are of no use to you. As noted, you could reshape the pan and cock but I don't have a real good solution to your problem...............Lynn

hanshi · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:59:35 AM »

Assuming I want to round off the rear point of the lock plate in addition to filing the pan, how would you go about filling in that bit of inletting?

runastav · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2012, 11:36:45 AM »

In the Manual Metalwork-Part 2 by Kit Ravenshear he explane to make a small Siler Flintlock look English

Runar

Gaeckle · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2012, 03:50:05 PM »

Two questions come to my mind: Why would you want to replace the lock and how do you propose to fill the viod left from the removal of the point at the tail end of that lock?

hanshi · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:41:13 PM »

To answer the first question, I want it to look a little more HC, a little is enough for me. Question #2, I really don't know at this time.

hanshi · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:43:39 PM »

Quote from: runastav on May 20, 2012, 11:36:45 AM

In the Manual Metalwork-Part 2 by Kit Ravenshear he explane to make a small Siler Flintlock look English
Runar

Where/how can I get a copy and what might it cost? I'm thinking such a booklet would be very useful all around.

Gaeckle · « **Reply #19 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:06:25 PM »

Quote from: hanshi on May 20, 2012, 06:41:13 PM

To answer the first question, I want it to look a little more HC, a little is enough for me. Question #2, I really don't know at this time.

HC to what? You may be looking at more than bobbing the tail and rounding the pan bottom........how about a picture of the entire gun.....

Habu · « **Reply #20 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:54:34 PM »

You might try here: http://store.kitravenshear.com/

hanshi · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2012, 10:11:57 PM »

Quote from: Gaeckle on May 20, 2012, 07:06:25 PM

Quote from: hanshi on May 20, 2012, 06:41:13 PM
To answer the first question, I want it to look a little more HC, a little is enough for me. Question #2, I really don't know at this time.

HC to what? You may be looking at more than bobbing the tail and rounding the pan bottom........how about a picture of the entire gun.....

This SMR

Meteorman · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2012, 12:46:26 AM »

here's a modified lefty Siler.
not sayin it's great. but just an example.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=20808.msg197187#msg197187

if you're going to round the tail, and fill in the inletting gap, your lock panel might also then look a little "off" at the rear.
You might be in for a bigger "remodeling" job......
/mike

heinz · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2012, 02:16:39 AM »

Hanshi, ask yourself this. If a busted rifle came into a gunsmith in East Tennessee in the early 19th century and it still had a perfectly functional, well made, germanic flint lock on it, what do you think would have happened to the lock??

News:

Author Topic: English to replace Small Siler (Read 9566 times)

Vomitus

Meteorman