Author Topic: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel  (Read 17087 times)

Offline Ezra

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Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« on: May 26, 2012, 02:31:59 AM »
Guys,

The following are all of the black powder barrel makers I am aware of, followed by the type of steel that they use for their barrels.  This list is for informational purposes only.  What can I say?  This sort of thing interests me...

For those manufacturers that are listed but do not have a barrel steel cited is where I need assistance  Obviously, if there is another barrel manufacturer(s), or if I have made an error, please sound off.

Longhammock - 12L14

Getz - 12L14

Bobby Hoyt -

Rice - 12L14

Ed Rayl - 8620

Green Mountain - 1137

Flintlock Construction, Inc. (Charlie Burton) - 12L14

Mark DeHaas -

Colerain - 12L14

Sleepy Hills Barrels - 4150

Jim Carpenter barrels -

Oregon barrel company -

Regards,


Ez
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 07:13:55 PM by Ezra »
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men"

woodburner

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 03:34:25 AM »
Ezra, I have another...www.thegunworks ......muzzleloading emporium.
Good people, good products.  Their barrel business is Oregon Barrel Co.Tim

Offline Ezra

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 03:53:18 AM »
Thanks.  Added Oregon barrel company.


Ez
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men"

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2012, 04:15:56 AM »
If you're going heavily engrave/chisel your barrel, you'll like 12L14.
Tom Curran's web site : http://tcurran.com/

Offline Don Tripp

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 08:14:15 AM »
I think Rayl uses 4150 forged near the center of the Earth somewhere under Mount Doom. It's hard stuff, I know that.

Offline Ezra

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 08:39:21 AM »
Does Mark DeHaas still make barrels?  If so, anyone know what steel he uses?


Ez
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men"

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 01:25:22 PM »
I inquired about having Ed Rayl make an Alex Henry barrel and he told me he used 8620 and he may be using 4150 as well. Jim McLemore uses certified for gun barrels grade 4150.
Rod England is having Rice make some barrels for his Alex Henry project and they are also 4150 if I remember correctly.
Here is a helpful hint in draw filing a barrel made from high grade steel. Buy the best file you can find and a can of tapping fluid. I use Relton rapid tap. Put a few drops along the flat to be filed and start filing. The job will be easier and the finish better. Clean the file as required and flip it over during the filing.

Bob Roller

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2012, 03:47:50 PM »
I think Rayl uses 4150 forged near the center of the Earth somewhere under Mount Doom. It's hard stuff, I know that.

He did use that 4150 stuff some years back, but has since switched......that 4150 stuff is hard to rifle and get a smooth finish...............

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 05:17:18 PM »
If you want files that will cut the hubs of $#*!, find a dealer that carries metal working tools made in Germany by Pferd. I bought a German chainsaw years ago, and tried to sharpen it with a regular American made chainsaw file, and only succeeded in turning it into a smooth rod. The guy that sold me the saw, sold me the German file, and it worked fine.
 They make high quality milling burs, and files, and who knows what else.

                    Hungry Horse

Naphtali

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 09:01:13 PM »
Shiloh Sharps currently uses AISI 4150. And Joe Williams has made two .72-caliber barrels for me of 416 BQ.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2012, 06:12:05 AM »
I think Rayl uses 4150 forged near the center of the Earth somewhere under Mount Doom. It's hard stuff, I know that.

He did use that 4150 stuff some years back, but has since switched......that 4150 stuff is hard to rifle and get a smooth finish...............

People do it and do it extremely well. Certified 4150 GB more difficult to cut and costs more. Its also more difficult to get since it cannot be purchased from the local steel supplier. In fact its hard to get since its only made to order so far as I know and 100 ton lot is a little much for cottage industry barrel makers.
It cuts much smoother if properly heat treated, but that costs more too....
 
Dan  
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

alsask

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 06:52:57 AM »
Lyman and Pedersoli use chrome moly for their barrels.

Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2012, 01:51:58 PM »
Guys,

Anybody for wrought iron?

Jim

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2012, 02:09:02 PM »
Jim McLemore uses only 4150 certified GB steel. He told me he shares the cost with several other makers.

Bob Roller

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 02:29:58 PM »
I have several sets of Pferd needle files and they are quite good. One set of 4"long I have had since 1979.They were a gift from a friend in Koln Germany.

Bob Roller

ironwolf

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2012, 04:48:32 PM »
  I believe 4150 is one of the chrome-moly alloys.

    K

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2012, 08:45:21 PM »
According to Wikipedia:

41xx steel is a family of SAE steel grades, as specified by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Alloying elements include chromium and molybdenum, and as a result these materials are often referred to as chromoly steel or CRMO. They have an excellent strength to weight ratio and are considerably stronger and harder than standard 1020 steel, but are not easily welded (need pre and post weld thermal treatement to avoid cold cracking).
While these grades of steel do contain chromium, it is not in great enough quantities to provide the corrosion resistance found in stainless steel.
Examples of applications for 4130, 4140 and 4145 include structural tubing, bicycle frames, tubes for transportation of pressurized gases, firearms receivers, clutch and flywheel components, and roll cages. 4150 stands out as being one of the steels accepted for use in M16 rifle and M4 carbine barrels by the United States military. These steels are also used in aircraft parts and therefore 41xx grade structural tubing is sometimes referred to as "aircraft tubing".

"One of the characteristics of this class of steel is the ability to be case hardened by carburization of the surface. The core of the material retains its bulk properties, while the outside is significantly hardened to reduce wear and tear on the part. This makes this grade of steel an excellent material for such uses as gears, piston pins, and crankshafts."[1]
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. William Allen White

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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2012, 02:57:25 AM »
Its possible to caseharden 4140/4150 but its also possible to through harden the part and make it brittle.
So these steels requires careful temperature control to get the higher carbon surface hard and leave the rest on the part ductile. Its "don't try this at home" type thing.

Dan 
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2012, 03:03:01 AM »
Also "aircraft tubing" mentioned in the Wiki article would indicate a high quality version of 4140/4150 tubing. Like gun barrels making A/C parts of low quality material is a bad idea.
 
Dan
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

Offline Blackpowder Barbie

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2012, 10:12:20 PM »
Don't hold me completely to it, but I think Long Hammock can also make barrels in 1137.  For the barrels he supplies me I ask for 12L14, but I've seen his other steel and they are nice, very slick smooth surface.
Barbie Chambers-Phillips

Offline aka california eddillon

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2012, 11:21:24 PM »
Any barrel makers have damascus available?  I got a quote from an Austrian a couple of years ago that made me almost choke!
In memory of Capt. Frederick H. Dillon, Commander 235th Ordnance Bomb Disposal Company.  MIA October 10, 1943.  His brother, Private Daniel B. Dillon, 85th Division, KIA northern Italy September 23, 1944.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2012, 11:29:10 PM »
Ed,
Did you want me to make a "Morgan"Hawken lock? Contact me at <wvgzr@webtv.net> if you did?
George Suiter,the gunmaker at Colonial Williamsburg built a superb Alex Henry long range rifle with a Damascus barrel that was bored and rifled by Ed Rayl. This gun was apparently made with little worry about cost because George paid me nearly $400 for that 4 pin lock. Maybe Ed Rayl can tell you where that blank came from.

Bob Roller

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2012, 11:40:55 PM »
Is there any reason to seek out barrels that are not made from a better steel? If the 1137 that Longhammock uses is modified at the mill for use in gun barrels then why not use it exclusively?? I inquired about 1137 at a steel mil and was told the "M" meant modified and the modifications could be for guns,car and truck axles and a host of other things.

Bob Roller

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2012, 12:18:38 AM »
Bob, Are you asking a question because you are seeking information :o..... or are you making a statement about what people should do? .....Up until now this thread has been information sharing... and perhaps educational.

If you are genuinely looking for information about why other steels might be better choices for some purposes then perhaps we will get some useful information.  

If on the other hand you are really making a statement about what you think others should do, then I am afraid we are likely to once again get into the rant about which is better.... Everyone has an opinion...just like they have an elbow.........But if this thread starts going into the same old rant I will lock it. :(  

Anyone who wants to know what the opinions are can look in the archives.... it is there in multiple copies for as many years as there are archives!!  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 12:20:33 AM by Dr. Tim-Boone »
De Oppresso Liber
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Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Black powder barrel manufacturers and their steel
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2012, 12:28:16 AM »
 I would suggest that Aircraft Quality 8620 bar is available from several suppliers. It is annealed,, ductile - nice and tough to withstand some of the interesting things that can happen in a muzzle loading rifle.  (edited by moderator)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 01:08:40 AM by Dr. Tim-Boone »