Buying Powder

[Eric Smith]

I don't live near a black powder disributor so I guess I'll have to order some online. I won't need a lot because I am not a competitive shooter, just a hunter. How do you guys work it out if your in a similar position as me? Also, any recomendations as to storage?

[SCLoyalist]

Distributors like powderinc.com will sell you as small as a 5 lb lot, although the price per pound is higher than a 25 lb lot would be.   Many muzzleloader clubs order 25 or 50 lbs at a time and split it up among their members, so you might explore that avenue.   Sometimes,too,  you'll find powder for sale at a 'vous or large shoot where you could buy just one or two pounds from a trader with the appropriate Fed explosives license.

For storage,  I store most of my powder (20 pounds, plus) out in an aluminum storage shed in the cardboard shipping cases they came in.  A couple of pounds should be okay inside the house in a closet (the cans, I have read, are made so that in case of fire, the soldered seams melt before the powder reaches ignition temp, so as to avoid an all out explosion of confined powder).    Be advised, though, some counties and cities have their own local rules and laws for powder storage.  Do a search on 'powder storage' on the forum and you'll likely find some other ideas on the subject.

SCL

[Bull Shannon]

I go in with my shooting club and we get a 25 pound case, which makes the price per pound around $14 depending on which brand it is.  You and a couple of friends could go in together, just be sure that whoever is receiving the package has the money up front from everyone and that you or your friends do not sell or transfer the powder that you've already paid for; that is considered distributing and the fads take a dim view on those who do so without a license.   There is a 5 pound minimum which will still be cheaper than what the store will charge for just one pound so if you cannot get anyone to go in with you then it's just more fun for you burning powder.    As for storage just keep it in a cool dry place away from any heat sources.  I recommend ordering from Powder Inc. but it's up to you.  I will not order from Jack's Powder Keg again due to poor customer service.

Now, I know in California you cannot possess more than 1 pound of black powder at any time so check your state's laws first just to be sure.  I don't know of any other state that has this type of restriction but that's why you should see for yourself.  I know that if you live in an apartment or some place with a home owners association you could be subject to other rules or even local ordinances.

Hope this helps and if I left something out I am sure that other good advice will follow.

[HardBall]

The last two times I've ordered powder I bought 5lbs at a time from Grafs.  Even after hazmat and Shipping my price per pound was less than it cost to buy locally by the tune of several dollars per pound.  And you can mix granulations and brands if you wish.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Actually i believe the CA law allows up to 5 lbs.  but it is confusing and many BP shooters out there seem to have no problem buying in 25# lots???

CA Health and safety Code

12001.  This part does not apply to any of the following:
   (a) Any person engaged in the transportation of explosives
regulated by, and when subject to, the provisions of Division 14
(commencing with Section 31600) of the Vehicle Code.
   (b) Small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less when designated
as a division 1.4 explosive by the United States Department of
Transportation.
   (c) Fireworks regulated under Part 2 (commencing with Section
12500) of this division, including, but not limited to, special
effects pyrotechnics regulated by the State Fire Marshal pursuant to
Section 12555.
   (d) Any explosives while in the course of transportation via
railroad, aircraft, water, or highway when the explosives are in
actual movement and under the jurisdiction of and in conformity with
regulations adopted by the United States Department of
Transportation, United States Coast Guard, or the Federal Aviation
Agency. However, no explosives shall be sold, given away, or
delivered except as provided in Section 12120.
   (e) Special fireworks classified by the United States Department
of Transportation as division 1.3 explosives when those special
fireworks are regulated under Part 2 (commencing with Section 12500)
of this division, when a permit has been issued pursuant to
regulations of the State Fire Marshal.
   (f) (1) Black powder in quantities of 25 pounds or less in the
hands of a retailer having a permit issued under Article 2
(commencing with Section 6066) of Chapter 2 of Part 1 of Division 2
of the Revenue and Taxation Code and in quantities of five pounds or
less in the hands of all others and smokeless powder in quantities of
20 pounds or less used, possessed, stored, sold, or transported that
is exempted under, or authorized by, the Federal Organized Crime
Control Act of 1970 (Public Law 91-452) and applicable federal
regulations thereunder.
   (2) All cities, counties, and special districts and county service
areas providing fire protection shall require retailers in
possession of black powder to notify fire authorities.

The referenced applicable Federal law:
Public Law 93-639 (1975) allows nonlicensees/nonpermittees to purchase commercially manufactured black powder, in quantities of 50 pounds or less, solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes for use in antique firearms or antique devices. A nonlicensee or nonpermittee purchasing black powder under the exemption need not be a resident of the State in which the dealer is located. Also, the categories of persons to whom the distribution of explosive materials is prohibited do not apply to black powder transactions made under the exemption.

[Eric Smith]

At Grafs, GoexFFF is listed as pistol powder, and GoexFF is listed as rifle powder. But many of you use FFF in rifles I believe.

[SCLoyalist]

At Grafs, GoexFFF is listed as pistol powder, and GoexFF is listed as rifle powder. But many of you use FFF in rifles I believe.

How Grafs lists it and how it's actually used may differ.  Look through the forum hard enough, you'll find references to 2F used in squirrel guns, and 3F used in trade guns and larger bore rifles.    What granulation, charge, patching and lube to use are often determined by trial and error to see what load gives the best results in a particular gun. 

The 'rule of thumb' I remember from when I started ML shooting thirty odd years ago was "3F for rifles of 45 cal or smaller and for pistols;  2F for muskets, shotguns, and rifles greater than 45 cal."   That's still a fairly good starting point for systematic experimentation in working up a load, but it's just general guidance.

[Hungry Horse]

Dr. Boone;

  There used to be some kind of stipulation that privately possessed black powder in execs of 5# be contained in a specific type of portable magazine. And, at that time a portable magazine that met standards could easily be made from one of the Knack job site tool boxes with the double locks. Of course all my information is many years old. I think a lot of the regulation were up to the municipalities where the powder was stored as well.

                                 Hungry Horse

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Hungry Horse, It always confuses me...... The safest thing ist to store it in a building away from the house.... But some of the sealed steel boxes I see scare me as they could create a bomb... I think that CA OSHA paper has some drawings in it on how to build a storage unit from plywood and other materials laminated into a wall..Water proof etc but fragile enough to not become a bomb..... I keep mine dispersed in one lb cans,,, 

[Hungry Horse]

 I have much the same misgivings in regard to the portable magazines. I will say I have had two local shooters have very dissimilar results from house fires. One friends home burned to the ground, upon digging through the rubble we came upon his rendezvous shooting box, with one end burned completely off of it. Inside was three one pound cans of powder, with the painted on labels completely burned off, one each of 2F,3F,4F, plus his powder horns, both full, no explosion. Another friend had several pounds of powder in an attached garage, locked in one of those lockable gun closets (not a safe) that burned along with his house. This powder went off like an atomic bomb. The firefighters were fortunate that the structure was so involved that they were well away from it, applying copious amounts of water to cool it down, when it went off. I think the major difference was the different amounts of flammable liquids in the area of the powder. Without direct flame, black powder can take a lot of heat, but if a rattle can of bug spray, or something similar, goes off and compromises the powder container, its all over.

                       Hungry Horse