I am new in here.

[BartSr]

Howdy,
My name is Paul and my handle is BartSr, only because my sons friends call him Bart, so I'm the "Senior".

I found a Jonathan Browning .50 cal barrel at the Portland Oregon gun show, today. It is a bare barrel. It looks to be new-old stock. Cost me $65. Fellow had another .45 cal with front and rear sights, $100. Had to leave it. Now I need to find enough parts to finish a percussion rifle.

Paul
aka BartSr

[Eric Smith]

Welcome to the ALR forum.

[Jerry V Lape]

You might want to poke around on Ebay in hopes of coming across a Browning stock.  Is this going to be your first build? 

[BartSr]

Yes, it would be my first traditional rifle. Probably percussion. I figured the barrel would be worth the effort.

I have a Thompson Hawken .50 cal percussion that I found and I like it..

I also (very crudely) make underhammer pistols, just to try different lock designs. Locks fascinate me, the designs thereof.

Thanks,
Paul

[KLMoors]

Welcome Bart.

What style rifle are you thinking of building, and what are the outside dimensions of the barrel you found?

[Acer Saccharum]

Welcome to the Forum Bart!

[BartSr]

Welcome Bart.

What style rifle are you thinking of building, and what are the outside dimensions of the barrel you found?

Well, Maybe a Hawken style, I'm still investigating. Apparently the barrel is already drilled, tapped and dovetailed for a Browning Hawken (type) two pin setup.

Barrel is 0.990 inches or 1 inch across the flats and is 30 inches long, without any plug.

Paul

[Habu]

Sounds like you've got a great excuse to expand into making an underhammer rifle--that barrel would make a great starting point. 

And welcome to the forum!

[Bob Roller]

Do you have the breech plug? I have never seen this type of threading/counterboring in a muzzle loading barrel. With a depth micrometer and a bit of simple calculation it would not be hard to make such a plug. Usually,the threads are countersunk the depth of one or one and a half threads rather than being counterbored. Something new/different learned today.

Bob Roller

[BartSr]

Do you have the breech plug? I have never seen this type of threading/counterboring in a muzzle loading barrel. With a depth micrometer and a bit of simple calculation it would not be hard to make such a plug. Usually,the threads are countersunk the depth of one or one and a half threads rather than being counterbored. Something new/different learned today.

Bob Roller

Bob,
No I have no plugs yet. I wanted to do a traditional one, but I already have a Thompson Hawken. .50.

I would probably be looking for a Flint plug, undrilled, to make an underhammer.
Just a thought.

Paul

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

From your pictures, it appears to me that you've bought a stripped factory barrel, after someone re-barreled their rifle.  I've never seen the inside of a Browning breech either, and would guess that the threads are 3/4" x 16 tpi, but you should check to be certain.  And the length of the thread is very important, when it comes time to re-breech it.  Have you decided upon a style?

[BartSr]

From your pictures, it appears to me that you've bought a stripped factory barrel, after someone re-barreled their rifle.  I've never seen the inside of a Browning breech either, and would guess that the threads are 3/4" x 16 tpi, but you should check to be certain.  And the length of the thread is very important, when it comes time to re-breech it.  Have you decided upon a style?

Yes, it's 3/4-16. There are some machining marks in that breech face that may reveal it's never had a plug installed, i.e. not flattened from torque. I imagine it's a patent-breech. There are slight rolled up edges at each sight dovetail, maybe from having sights installed, probably removed by someone who wanted them. The other barrel I passed on, had both sights, so who knows.

Style? Not sure what you are asking?

Paul

[Daryl]

Paul, Taylor is asking what style of rifle do you want to build with that barrel.

I would cut (lathe) or file off the counterbored portion of the barrel and breech it normally with a flint breech to make an underhammer, or Hawken or English-style patent breech for a normal 1/2 stock- if I was going to use that barrel.

[BartSr]

Paul, Taylor is asking what style of rifle do you want to build with that barrel.

I would cut (lathe) or file off the counterbored portion of the barrel and breech it normally with a flint breech to make an underhammer, or Hawken or English-style patent breech for a normal 1/2 stock- if I was going to use that barrel.

Ok, that makes sense, the counterbored breech plug part. Thanks.

Style: Well I am new to this traditional gun making, so I would have to look around and find out how many kinds there and what their names are. I don't mean how many variations there are, that would be like trying to read the whole internet. This answer may give a clue as to my mis-understanding of the question, sorry. 

I like the Hawken basic idea of half-stock.
The long rifle style, my skills aren't up to that yet.
UnderHammer I understand and could do, I have several lock styles that I've used that work.

Paul

[44-henry]

I have a Browning Mountain rifle and somewhere I remember reading about the breech on these rifles. I could be way off base here, but if memory serves Browning actually brazed the breech plug into the rifle in addition to conventional threads. I guess they felt it made a more secure fit. The barrel on my rifle is very accurate and should make a good start to your project; however, the rifles are quite collectable these days with people paying high prices for good specimens. You might find that you could get far more for the barrel than you paid on Ebay and could than use the money to buy a modern barrel of a style and caliber that suites what you want to do.

[BartSr]

--snip-- You might find that you could get far more for the barrel than you paid, on Ebay and could than use the money to buy a modern barrel of a style and caliber that suites what you want to do.

I really will use this barrel. There is a BP retired gunsmith in the local area. I can use him for more information. I have a couple of plugs coming in, as a gift.

Paul

[54ball]

 Paul,
  My opinion is that you find the factory breach for that barrel.  Even then there could be fit problems and make sure the plug is from a .50.

 If it was mine I would put it away until I found the right breach or sell it.  Breach fit is critical, what ever you do make sure it is done right.  To me, for a first time rifle project that's a lot of work to do and in the end you may wish you used a different barrel.

  Actually a true Hawken with the snail and all the metal fitment required for the triggers, guard, hooked breach and under-rib is much more difficult to build than a simple longrifle.

[BartSr]

Paul,
  My opinion is that you find the factory breach for that barrel.  Even then there could be fit problems and make sure the plug is from a .50.

 If it was mine I would put it away until I found the right breach or sell it.  Breach fit is critical, what ever you do make sure it is done right.  To me, for a first time rifle project that's a lot of work to do and in the end you may wish you used a different barrel.

  Actually a true Hawken with the snail and all the metal fitment required for the triggers, guard, hooked breach and under-rib is much more difficult to build than a simple longrifle.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
Actually, in my opinion, finding the correct plug may be harder than finding this barrel. So, unless one is found, I'll probably just use this barrel as is in a Hawken type configuration.
Paul

[54ball]

  Paul,
 
 You know my opinion on the barrel and I do agree that finding the the factory breach will be difficult.  I have a 1950 F-1 Ford truck with a 51 hood and front fenders.  The problem I have with finding the proper front clip in decent shape is that it is always attached to a equally good truck.

  This may be old hat to you if so, forgive me.

  I stated earlier that a True Hawken was difficult to build.  That is true.  A late Hawken half stock can be a night mare of wood to metal fit.

  Now a Plains Rifle like a haflstock Leman will build like a longrifle with the exception of the underib.  A Leman Plains rifle might be a good candidate for that Browning bbl.   You could build it in a short full stock or half stock.  Full stock is less work.

  Heres some facts about modern " Hawkens"  The TC, Invest Arms, Cabelas, CVA,  Traditions, and even the venerable Great Plains Rifle by Lyman are not Hawkens at all.  The TC and its clones are patterned after mid western half stock rifles of the 1870s.  The GPR looks like a light Hawken Rifle but it is constructed more like a long rifle.

  Probably the most difficult thing to fit on a true Hawken halfstock is the trigger and trigger gaurd.  The trigger guard threads into the trigger plate.  That makes the whole trigger group a one piece assembly that can be very difficult to fit.  If fit separately they may not fit right when assembled.

  A long rifle or simple plains rifle on the other hand,  the triggers can be simply pinned into the wood or inletted in place.  The trigger guard is a separate unit that can be bent to the correct shape and placed over the triggers.  A much simpler method.  That's how the GPR is built  if it were built like a true Hawken it would cost 12 to $1500.00

  You can build a rifle that looks like a Hawken but is not really built like a Hawken.  Many Hawken style components are available but they assemble in the simpler manner.

 Here is some eye candy for you.  The first is the Nez Pearce Chief Joseph's Leman

   (http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/firearms-trade/chief-joseph-leman.jpg)

(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/firearms-trade/ndn-guns-002-leman.jpg)

(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/firearms-trade/leman-trio.jpg)

[Bob Roller]

<Probably the most difficult thing to fit on a true Hawken half stock is the trigger and trigger guard>. Once in a while,I get a request to put a trigger guard on a set of my Hawken triggers and while it takes time,it isn't hard to do. The biggest mistake I have found is not remembering to SET THE TRIGGER so a proper clearance between the rear trgger and the guard bow is established.The next is ruining the round stud while trying to thread it.
I will post again on this and tell how it can be done.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

For the F-1 Ford,try Garland Napier.He is in West Virginia and has a big inventory of old cars and light trucks. I went out there a few years ago and got a lot of hard to find items for my 1951 Packard. His phone # is 1-304-486-5070.

Bob Roller

[BartSr]

(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/firearms-trade/ndn-guns-002-leman.jpg)

I like this picture, the one on top. I like the flow of the stock (shape).

Thanks,
Paul

[54ball]

  Thanks Bob...

  Paul,

  That's a Leman Trade Rifle.  Arguably the true King Of the Plains...

  Travis

[Glenn]

Welcome to the Forum.  Best site of it's kind.

[BartSr]

I have about 1/4 flat left to turn.

Bad pix from a cheap cell phone, then "enhanced".

Paul