Buttplate Question

[KLMoors]

Hi folks.

I got this buttplate cheap. It had a boogered up finial (bad casting) that I figued I could cut off and use as a squared comb type plate. As it turns out, once I squared it up, the comb looks too short to my eye for this.

This is a Dave Keck, Marshall pre-carve. I am building an early, Christian Springs, generic, step wrist gun. I am not trying to copy a specific gun or builder. It is the first time I have built this type of gun so I am learning the architecture as I go and would prefer not to screw it up too badly.

Here is a picture of the "saved" butt plate. I have a total of $5 and 20 minutes time invested.

What do you folks think- Is that comb/tang piece too short, or OK for this?





If you think I need a new one, do you have any suggestions?

Track has an early style, sand cast one that looks like it would work and I also have a "Klette" butt plate that might work.

[rich pierce]

Depends on whether you're going for a classic look or a funky gun.  Keep in mind a lot of early rifles were parts guns utilizing combinations of new and old gun parts. You might go funky.

You could also add a finial to the front as a separate piece of sheet brass like a cheekpiece inlay is done. 

If you wanted to make a more solid finial attached to the buttplate extension, solder 2 pieces of sheet brass the width of the buttplate tang together face to face, with the lower one one extending further than the other.  The long leg would then be soldered to the underside of the buttplate forward extension.  Not sure if I communicated that clearly!

[kutter]

I'd make an extension for it. Inlet it into position once the current butt plate is installed. Make the joint a close fit and a scarf joint (slanted).

Then soft solder the two pieces together while they are installed in the wood.
Being brass, having them properly tinned and fluxed before hand and using a soldering iron,,not a flame,,you can join them perfectly on the stock w/o damaging the wood.

The tight scarf joint between the two parts makes for more area and more strength.
Much easier than attaching first then trying to inlay the assembly.

Form a decorative rib or line cut at the joint to help hide the solder joint. Use lead/tin solder instead of the silver bearing soft solder, it will tarnish to dark grey and can be colored black if you want. The silver bearing stuff stays bright white.

Butt plate is still detachable if need be,,but how often is that. Handle carefully when off the gun.

[KLMoors]

Hmmm, I hadn't thought about adding onto this one. I do have some sheet brass that would work and this one is pretty thick, so I could file off my moldings I put on this one and come up with some sort of extension.

I was thinking of this gun being a simple, straight forward critter, but I also want it to be true to the spirit of a CS type of gun. That is my plan thus far but that almost always evolves as I move along on a gun.

Looking through RCA and the KRA CD of pictures, it seems that most of the Christian Springs guns have a squared off plate along the comb line, and that this part of the butt plate is pretty long. Some look faceted and some look curved, but they all are longer than this one.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am going to stew on it some more.

[Acer Saccharum]

If you are going to throw that buttplate out, I'll take it.


As a matter of fact, it's no good. Don't use it. Bad idea.

send to:
Tom Curran

Actually, I think you can make a fine gun with it, UNLESS you're making a close copy, or a strict 'in the school of' kind of gun. The BP looks mor Germanic with a shortened extension. So German the whole gun up a little.

[KLMoors]

LOL Tom.

The problem is that my Scottish blood is going "Only $5? It's perfect!" while my English blood is wringing its pasty white hands going "oh dear, oh my, oh bloddy heck".

When you say to "German the whole gun up a little", could you give me some examples of the details you mean?

It's a D-weight, 42" .58 cal barrel, with a Chambers early Germanic lock going on it if that helps.

Thanks.

[smallpatch]

I think you should just use it.  From where I'm sitting, it just doesn't look our of place.  Nice buttplate by the way.  Love that bulbous heel.  I see why you wanted to salvage it.  IMHO!!

[B.Habermehl]

I absolutely agree with acer (Tom). I would just go ahead and use it. Especially if your not trying to do a documentary copy. Viva le difference!  BJH

[DB]

Yes, go ahead and use it. Its fine.

[Tom Currie]

Regarding your BP choice, I think it all depends on what level of representation your trying to do. Christian's Spring to me is a pretty limited style as we only have a few rifles or guns that we know definitevly were made there, and several others we believe were like the Edward Marshall rifle.

Early Eastern PA provides more room for choice IMHO

That might sound be a bit anal but that's were my gun building head is at today.  

THe Klette buttplate seems a good choice also, I heard somewhere before the buttplate resembles CS buttplates.  

Good start on the butt stock

[Ed Wenger]

I'm not so sure about a Christian Springs rifle...  I'd feel more comfortable using it with a "generic", step wrist piece.  Use some baroque carving, maybe even some carving in front of the butt piece tang to "lengthen" it some, or wire inlay to achieve the same effect.  Like Tom said, German it up some.  I kind of like it, and would use it.


            Ed

[Acer Saccharum]

Use a germanic guard, or one that has germanic roots. In the Colonial era there was hardware being imported that was pre-finished and engraved in Germany. Maybe something like that. I think there are some examples in RCA, but I can't recall off the top o' me hairless head at the moment ....

Then look at the Germanic rifles in RCA, look at early eastern PA rifles, and look at: http://flintrifles.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/hello-world/  for an example of what I mean. That rifle is a total fabrication, but I had fun with it. Germanic Guard, short extension on the BP, jaeger-like stock design, but 'American folk' carving and wood used in this country...sugar maple.

[Don Getz]

You have the very good makings for a barn gun, or use the buttplate, it's actually not too bad.    What type of triggerguard do you have to go with it???............Don

[54ball]

 I guess I'll be the dissenting voice.
 Why base $700 in parts around a $5 butt plate second?

 If you find that through research it will work that's one thing' but otherwise

[KLMoors]

54ball, that point about the tail wagging the dog is what is stuck in my craw.

Ed, I like the idea of some carving/wire up ahead of the plate to lengthen it out. That seems that it would help the problem and "German it up" some.

Don, I have a couple of guards available, one (I think) is called the small Bivens and with a little bending and a lot of filing, I could get it to look real close to the guard on the Albrecht guns on the KRA disc. I am going to look at some other stuff in RCA as Tom suggests for more ideas on that.

Acer, thanks for those pics of your gun. Nice stuff as always!

Tom Currie, I am going to spend some time looking into the eastern PA stuff and details.

I'll be back with questions on those details once I have looked them over.

Big thanks everyone!