Author Topic: Looking For Any Info Unsigned Halfstock (Read 10585 times)

Majorjoel · « **on:** June 28, 2012, 05:20:46 PM »

I know how hard it is to try and place locations and makers regarding unsigned rifles. Later made pieces can be more difficult than earlier ones. Here are a few pictures of a halfstock squirrel rifle (36 cal.) I recently acquired. If anyone has any ideas as to possible maker or area of manufacture, I would be most appreciative to hear from you!

Majorjoel · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2012, 05:27:06 PM »

Majorjoel · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2012, 05:28:40 PM »

Majorjoel · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2012, 05:30:21 PM »

Majorjoel · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2012, 05:31:52 PM »

Majorjoel · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2012, 05:34:50 PM »

aflo · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2012, 05:56:37 PM »

I am not an expert or a long time longrifle person but this gun just blows me away. The buttstock surfaces are gorgeous on both sides and the ornamentation beautiful and unique. The lock mortise shape is unusual and the lock is fairly flush, not something I was expecting to see – nonetheless it really works nicely. Even the tang shape is different and cool.
I would love to hear more about its history and school.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2012, 06:20:25 PM »

I really like it too Alfo! I bought it from a good friend and longrifle collector. One of the nice suprises about this rifle is that the bore is very good. I keep getting these darn temptations to shoot em!

Another unusual feature that I have never seen is the finger tab on the PB lid which protrudes out quite a ways. It does not seem to poke me too bad when shouldered at the upper bicep. The lid opens by just lifting it by this tab.

smart dog · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2012, 07:42:23 PM »

Hi Joel,
Very interesting gun and thanks for the photos. I am afraid I cannot help you identify it but I am curious about the lock panel architecture. Doesn't that remind you of the styling commonly used with drip bar percussion locks during 1850-1870? It makes me think of percussion double guns and English sporting guns of the period.

dave

Buck · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2012, 08:01:49 PM »

Joel,
Really interesting, the finial (game cock) and acorns are very Higgins, the cheek rest and the Deer are fimiliar with New York. Curt Johnson might be able to help you out on this one. Nice looking rifle.
Buck

bgf · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2012, 08:54:08 PM »

The diamond on the wrist always suggests NC (or possibly SW Va. but at a MUCH earlier period), but I don't know in this case. NC, NY, Ohio, I can see all sorts of possibilities, which suggests to me that the first place to look might be the mid-West -- for what good that does. Whatever it is, I think it was made by a very skilled maker, though if I saw it without any context (e.g. outside "Antique Gun Collecting"), I might be tempted to say it was built during the 1970's, as it has so little adherence to any convention I know of and it is in pristine condition.

mbriggs · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2012, 11:52:19 PM »

It is not from North Carolina, but I do get the feeling that the person that made it had seen a Jamestown Rifle at some point and liked it. Bill Ivey looked at the photos and said he believed it might be from West Virginia due to the acorn inlays.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Michael

Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2012, 03:20:09 AM »

Joel,
What are the markings on the lock plate? The wrist looks to be a bit shorter than normal also. I am not picking on it as it is a fabulous looking rifle. I think that Curt Johnson might be able to shed some light on it. I agree with bgf I thought it looked kind of midwest also when I first saw it, nobody knows them better than Curt.
Buck

jdm · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2012, 03:56:36 AM »

It sure has a West Virginia feel to me. JIM

JCKelly · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2012, 04:08:00 AM »

Wonder if the barrel has any stamp hidden under the stock? You might want to take some accurate measurements across the flats, breech and muzzle. If it is exactly 15/16 or 7/8" straight perhaps suspicion is in order.

Wet blanket - looks contemporary to me, stock architecture about of lock, for one thing, flash shield, wrist-comb area.

Curt J · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:43:00 AM »

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I can't quite identify it either. I think "midwestern" is a good guess, perhaps by someone who previously worked in Virginia, or what is now West Virginia. Those acorns with wire inlay do indeed have a "Virginia" look about them. Wherever it was made, it is a very nice rifle.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #16 on:** June 29, 2012, 02:08:07 PM »

I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions on this rifle. Smartdog.....a....Dave, I have seen that same lock and sideplate moulding form on a couple of late southern rifles as well as guns with percussion" bar" locks. As far as the contemporary issue with this rifle, I don't believe it to have been made in recent times. It is quite late in what I would call victorian times. This piece reminds me of a victorian Christmas scene from Courier and Ive's. I also believe that more than one hand was involved in the decoration. Most of the engraving on the silver and brass was done by one and the deer inlay past the cheek was done by another. Why there is engraving on all metal work except the patchbox is also strange and could indicate the box was a later addition. In order for the decoration to balance there had to have been some form of patchbox or inlay work on that side to complete the work, so who knows. It sure is fun to pursue the unknown history of these ole smokers! One more note to make, I have seen a lot of german silver on late rifles, and the silver on this one to me almost has an aluminum look about it. Is there a way to test it to find out?

Sequatchie Rifle · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2012, 03:41:35 PM »

It certainly seems to have a strong German influence. Thanks for sharing it.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2012, 05:08:50 PM »

The patch box is very Higgins for sure. And, given Higgins tendency toward unusual decorations, I would consider him a definite possibility. Although the engraving doesn't look very Higgins to me. The wear on the metal, and finish on the iron parts, and the sharp edges on the wood, tends to make me think this might be a restock. The wood just looks too good to be true, no dents, chips, or cracks. JMO.

Hungry Horse

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2012, 05:18:31 PM »

The more I look at it (really like it) the more I think its from the WVa area across the river from Ohio. Possibly even made in Ohio. Wild guess but I am sticking to it!
Dennis

JCKelly · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2012, 07:19:08 PM »

Grman Silver vs aluminum? The only way I know to test it, without damage, is to find a friend working in a lab that has a portable X-ray fluoroscope. They look like an oversize SF ray-gun. A popular make these days is Innov-X Systems Model (whatever) Spectrometer.Leaves no marks.
When I was working I got lots of nice brass stuff analyzed in the lab. And be there during the test, Lab Guys have no respect for antiques. Might file the surface down for a better reading.
Or find out what they charge to do the test. If you have it tested this way, these things have a program to tell you the name of the alloy.
DO NOT BELEIVE that program. It only knows what someone of limited knowledge programmed in it. Yes, the technician wants to believe it but don't you. Get the actual, complete analysis, then someone, me being the volunteer, can tell you what it is. Unfortunately the machine can't measure very light elements, including, aluminum so would give you a screwy answer there.

Wet Blanket again. 19th Century German Silver had a yellowish cast to it, the modern stuff is called Nickel Silver and is closer to white. The difference is another 6% zinc in the modern stuff. Unless one is a nit-picky metallurgist like yrs truly, people interchange the names 'German' and 'Nickel' Silver without paying much (any) attention to them being two different grades of copper-zinc-nickel alloy.
You may notice this when you try to replace one "German Silver" inlay on an antique rifle. Whoops . . . Keep it in the shade.

Carper · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2012, 07:58:40 PM »

Joel: That is some fine squirrel rifle, regardless if made 100 years ago or yesterday. That is the tricky part about rifles from the hills of WV ( and thats my bet) they just did not go out of fashion. I would take a good look at the groove/land geometry ( they should jump out on a home rifle that has been shot as little as this one appears) 99% of the old rifles from here had very narrow grooves and real deep too. The grooves are wide it might hint at 1950's production. Just something to think about not cast in stone. Of course some folks (like us) kept right on rifeling barrels and so there are exceptions to rule. Again most of the old squirrel rifles from here ( that I have seen,lots,lots) were .32 and under. The .36 starts to show up good here with Douglas barrels etc. Another piece of evidence for later production. And then using wood screws on the triggerguard, usually seen later. I would also bet that the rifle originally had a small cap box instead of the box on it now. I just can't see a maker that could engrave as many of the minor pieces resisting that big box as a canvas. If I saw that rifle here at a distance, I would bet it was a Lenard Meadows piece from the 50's or 60's. Again a really top notch rifle that might have a lot of life left in it.
And would not that be great... Johnny

bgf · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2012, 03:21:47 AM »

Aluminum is known for inlays on WV rifles, I believe. It was once more valuable than it is now, because it couldn't be refined efficiently.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:36:28 PM »

Thanks again JC, and Johnny you are sooooo right

Bill-52 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:52:19 PM »

I knew you couldn't wait to shoot it, Joel. Very nice.

Having seen it in person guys, its better than in the pictures.

Bill

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Author Topic: Looking For Any Info Unsigned Halfstock (Read 10585 times)

aflo