Author Topic: A New England Fowler  (Read 11506 times)

Joe S

  • Guest
A New England Fowler
« on: July 01, 2012, 12:39:15 AM »
My gun #3 is a New England Fowler.  I’d appreciate a critique.

Methods and Materials: The barrel is a 10 gauge Colerain, the lock is Chamber’s Early Ketland, and the trigger guard is a TOW Type D trade fusil.  The rest of the parts I made, except for that white rock in the cock, which I bought from an itinerant rock chipper in Missouri.  I got the patch box from the same place Don Getz gets his butt plates.  The lock plate is bone, and the ramrod tip was made from an antler off a buck that got tangled up in one of my hay bales.  Serves him right, if you ask me.

I try to stay as traditional as possible with both woodworking techniques and finishes, so the stock was scraped, stained with AF, and then finished with a variant of Kettenburg’s formula for brown varnish.  The stain and varnish were courtesy of the Montana Historical Gunmaker’s Guild. The barrel was browned with nitric acid, and Dunlop supplied the stock blank.  I am too important to inlet my own barrels and drill my own ramrod holes, so in keeping with tradition, I had my apprentice Dave Rase do that for me.  Incidentally, he is coming along nicely, and if he is diligent in his labors, I’m sure he will be a fine gunsmith by the time his seven years are up.

Architectural and aesthetic considerations:  The stock design was based rather loosely on Grinslade’s NE 40, and the side plate on NE 18 and NE 20. The most difficult part of this build for me was the stock design.  It has a 15” LOP, and it wasn’t easy to scale up the stock, and keep everything in proportion.  The barrel is 1 ¼” through the breech, and I carried that robustness through the wrist.  I think it may have been a little more aesthetic to reduce the wrist somewhat, but I left it full to better fit the hands of the person I built the gun for.  NE 40 has a similar wrist, which is one of the reasons I based the stock design on that particular gun.

The side plate is based on two oddball side plates.  NE 20 is a folk art side plate done in brass, which I modified somewhat to fit the space and material I was working in.  NE 18 is a more conventional side plate, but it was carved in ivory.  So, I took a little artistic liberty and used bone for my side plate.  It is not HC in the sense that I know of another bone side plate, but I suppose it has perfectly plausible period provenance.







« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 12:40:26 AM by Joe S »

Offline tallbear

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4053
  • Mitch Yates
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 12:52:35 AM »
Nice clean work Joe.For your third gun I think you have done very well.The bone sideplate is also very cool 8) 8) 8) where did you get the bone .If I were to ding you for anything at all I would say the tang carving seems underwhelming although well executed but this is minor .It's also very HC as a lot of these New England fowlers particularly the ones from Connecticut had very primitive or naive carvings.Overall I would say you've done well I like it.

Mitch
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 12:57:56 AM by aka tallbear »

Joe S

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 03:01:18 AM »
Mitch – Thanks for the compliments.  If the carving comes across as naive, that is exactly what I was aiming for.  I was trying to capture the simplistic feeling of New England carving, and perhaps I have succeeded.  It seems to me that most of the New England gunsmiths couldn’t carve, and those who could, generally didn’t.

The bone came from PetSmart.  I took it away from my dog, sawed off what I wanted, and gave the rest back to her.  She didn’t seem to mind.

The bone was very nice to work with.  It cuts easily and cleanly with wood carving tools, and would take very fine detail if your carving required it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:09:23 AM by Joe S »

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 04:17:38 AM »
Joe it is beautiful workmanship and certainly captures the "Yankee" look and feel..The sideplate is a really nice unique touch!!  The only suggestion I have is to taper the baluster of the buttstock to smaller diameter as viewed from the side, before it disappears into the butt. Take a look at the treatment Mike Brooks used on the one he submitted for critique. http://www.fowlingguns.com/sitebuilder/images/296b-600x248.jpg
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:23:22 PM by Dr. Tim-Boone »
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19484
    • GillespieRifles
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 04:25:41 AM »
Joe,
I know nothing about New England fowlers so I should keep my mouth shut but here goes.

I love the profile of the stock and the work is extremely well done but I can not get by that squared off butt plate as shown in the top down view! Maybe its correct for that type fowler but in my mind it takes away from the fantastic lines of the fowler.

I agree with Mitch that sideplate is great.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline JDK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 05:04:40 AM »
I got the patch box from the same place Don Getz gets his butt plates.

I'm still looking for the patchbox.

Otherwise I like the gun very much.  The fore end effect is very nice...slim sided and in profile....but nice curves, not slab-sided.

I like the butt, again nice curves....and the baluster wrist continuing so far back and executed well.

Finish and color is nice!  And the bone work is outstanding....your dog should be proud for her contribution!

I'm with Dennis on the flat but plate though, but from the point that it looks soooo uncomfortable to shoot with those sharp right angles on the sides.

Keep up the good work and Enjoy, J.D.
J.D. Kerstetter

Offline elk killer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 01:26:58 PM »
nice, seems to me the lockplate is steel not bone,,
sideplate is bone and a nice job of it
only flintlocks remain interesting..

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18385
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 02:55:12 PM »
 Well done. Does it have a sight?

  Tim C.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 05:13:53 PM »
You're another one of those super crisp builders.  Architecture is good, especially with that big barrel. I think I would have moved the tang bolt forward a bit if it was possible. I also would have rounded the top and the back of the butt before I inlet an nailed down the butt plate to give it a more rounded appearance....although I have seen them done exactly the way you have done this one. I think I would have left the sideplate flat instead of sculpted. I think the ballastrated wrist should have followed the line of the lower buttstock closer. Don't care for the ram rod tip either.
 Great color and finish. I think it's a great representation of a NE fowling gun.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline KLMoors

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 05:15:21 PM »
I like it. I agree with Dennis that the butt seems a bit odd done like that, but I am not familiar with these gun's details. Also, the angular shadow at the entry pipe transition catches my eye but that may just be the lighting.

Overall, a very sweet piece of work!

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7907
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 06:50:10 PM »
Congrats to you on a well executed, very traditional looking gun. Workmanship looks to be real nice.   Smylee

Joe S

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 10:10:33 PM »
Dr. Tim – I agree with your observation.  When viewed from the top, the wrist has essentially a cylindrical cross section.  It should be a conic section.  Dave Rase saw this gun in the white and tried to explain this to me, but I didn’t really understand what he was getting at until I looked at the pictures of the finished gun.  

Dennis – I believe that the architecture of the butt is a correct way to build this gun.  There are other correct ways as well.  The butt plate is a sheet metal cheap imitation of an English butt plate.  This is the fastest, cheapest and easiest way to put on a butt plate.  All you do is inlet the return, bend the sheet around the end, then nail it in place.  More of a radius on the corners would certainly be more graceful.  I don’t think I’ll make a butt plate this way again.  

JDK – The corners do not cause a problem shooting.  In spite of the very long LOP (I have a 14” LOP, this gun is 15”), the gun is very comfortable to shoot.

Elk Killer – Agreed – the lock plate is steel and the side plate is bone.

Tim C -


Mike.  Thanks for the critique.  I was hoping to get some input from you.  I did the ramrod tip like that because I’m lazy and I was curious how it would come out.  It doesn’t work with this gun.  A plain rod with a swell on the end would be much better.

I had originally intended to do a flat side plate as you suggested, with the lines scrimshawed rather than carved.  I even have a piece of ivory for it.  I swiped the dog’s bone just to practice on.  First I scrimshawed the lines in, then I got to wondering how it would carve.  I liked the result, so I left it on the gun.  Chalk that one up to that category of that’s not how I planned it; it’s just the way it came out.  As far as I know, there is no real historical justification for a side plate like that.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 10:13:44 PM by Joe S »

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 11:32:52 PM »
Quote
Mike.  Thanks for the critique.  I was hoping to get some input from you.  I did the ramrod tip like that because I’m lazy and I was curious how it would come out.  It doesn’t work with this gun.  A plain rod with a swell on the end would be much better.

I had originally intended to do a flat side plate as you suggested, with the lines scrimshawed rather than carved.  I even have a piece of ivory for it.  I swiped the dog’s bone just to practice on.  First I scrimshawed the lines in, then I got to wondering how it would carve.  I liked the result, so I left it on the gun.  Chalk that one up to that category of that’s not how I planned it; it’s just the way it came out.  As far as I know, there is no real historical justification for a side plate like that.
Scrimshaw would have been really cool. This may be  just me, but white is a jarring color for me on a gun. Really draws the eye like a magnet.  Fine for grips on a colt six shooter or knife handles, but it just doesn't work for me on flint guns. I don't care for the ivory mounts on the one in Grinslades either....just me. I agree about the ram rod, plain old flared would have been better.
 I'd still like to remind you this is a very good gun....what is it ....#3? Good God you should have seen my 3rd. :o
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 11:49:03 PM »
By the way... Check out the pitch of the buttplate on #40. The toe kicks in quiet a bit, very common on NE guns and helps with a more convincing copy of the area I think. Of course with a 15" pull it just makes things like that more difficult. You'll also notice how #40's buttplate rounds a bit across the heel. A long pull like that really throws off the archetecture of a gun, but you pulledd this off well. I was looking at the top of the buttstock. You did a great job of thing that comb down and defining the ballistrated wrist. The wrist does look a bit big in that view but the thinness of the comb may be exaggerating that look. I have used that barrel several times and it does make for a big gun.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Don Getz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6853
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 03:16:01 AM »
Joe.........that gun has real nice lines, good fowler architecture, too nice to have that flat buttplate nailed to it.  It just
looks out of place.   Another thing I would have done differently is the shaping of the muzzle end of the stock, right now
it has none.   And, you mentioned the tip of the ramrod, I would change that too...........Don

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • Personal Website
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2012, 04:15:47 PM »
I agree with much that has been said. You've done some careful neat work. Personally, I don't like the idea of a bone sideplate.  The wrist line that is heading down the stock might typically taper more toward the toe, but I think it has appeal the way you have made it as well.  Perhaps it's just lighting, but the forestock directly in front of the sideplate looks a little flat in the one picture.  Maybe it's fine though.  Somebody mentioned the transition between the upper and lower forestock area.  I agree that there are some issues there.  I'm also with whoever mentioned a little better termination to the forestock at the end of the barrel.  It's hard to tell, but the forestock might benefit if more of the barrel were exposed.  Also, it's again hard to tell, but I'm wondering if there is a little extra material along the forestock, especially low toward the groove.  Again, might be fine though.   It's good you've asked for suggestions as well. This can be tough after so much hard work and especially in a public way such as this.  Hope it will be beneficial though.  With all this said, I think you've done some nice work.  Good job!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 04:16:44 PM by Jim Kibler »

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2012, 06:23:37 PM »
I really appreciate Joe's thread and the constructive responses here, which help me understand architecture, design, fit and finish - my thanks to all.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 06:24:17 PM by Daryl »

Rasch Chronicles

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2012, 07:39:09 PM »
Howdy fellows,

What drew my eye was how clean it is. I mean everything is in its place and well executed. And it's only number 3? Man, I would be happy with it as my #20 or more! Of course the 10 bore part of it is really nice.

Still living the dream,
your friend,
Albert A Rasch

greybeard

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2012, 07:48:48 PM »
Howdy fellows,

What drew my eye was how clean it is. I mean everything is in its place and well executed. And it's only number 3? Man, I would be happy with it as my #20 or more! Of course the 10 bore part of it is really nice.

Still living the dream,
your friend,
Albert A Rasch
Good  to hear from you Albert.  You have had  a few of us a bit worried!!!!

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2012, 09:51:16 PM »
Nice browing job, too. I browned a barrel with nitric acid many years ago, when I was a kid (maybe 26) and supidly didn't wear rubber gloves. My fingers throbbed for weeks afterwards and now are aflicted with a 'thick skin syndrome". Oh wel, matches the rest of my hide. ;D

The more times I look this gun over, the more I am really starting to think of one in my future. It's bore size sounds perfect!

Joe S

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 07:04:00 AM »
I’d like to thank everyone for the complements, but most especially for the criticism.  Thanks to your critiques, I’ll be able to build a better gun next time.  Now I’ll try and address your comments;

Mike – We could probably talk about pitch all day long.  The pitch of NE 40 is about 74 degrees, while my gun is about 85 degrees.  Looking through Grinslade, pitch runs from near 90 to about 70 degrees or so.  I would agree with your observation that NE 40 has a typical pitch, and mine is closer to the extreme end of the range.  But, a typical NE fowler is also about 20 gauge.  Considering the recoil of a 10 gauge, and the shape of the person I built the gun for, I thought the 85 degree pitch would make a better shooting gun for him, so that’s how it ended up like that.  Now that I think about it though, I don’t know why I care if the gun kicks hard or not.  If he doesn’t like the recoil, he could just put in less powder.  I don’t know why I should have to build an ugly gun just to keep his shoulder from getting sore.

Don and Jim – Both of you mentioned the muzzle treatment.  Looking back at my reference photos, I see that they have more radius than I have on mine.  I think the greater radius would look better than what I did.  My forend approaches more of a sawed off look, and a bigger radius would look more finished. As to the thickness of the fore stock, I think it looks better than what the photos show.  The maximum thickness is about 1/16”, and it is well rounded with the centerline being about 1/3 of the way down from the top.  I should apologize for the quality of the pictures.  I think it’s time for a new camera.

Since some of you folks aren’t familiar with NE fowlers, I thought you might enjoy a brief introduction to them.  NE fowlers are unusual guns.  While most schools will have a dozen or so characteristic styles of architecture, furniture, carving and so forth, Grinslade lists only two for NE Fowlers.  They are a curved top and bottom line of the stock.  That’s it.  Locks, barrels and furniture could be anything.

The NE gunsmiths were fiscal conservatives even in the way back times.  It seems that if they could build the part easily, they usually did.  Furniture was recycled if possible, without consideration to origin or style.  You’ll see guns with perhaps a French civilian trigger guard, and English military side plate and a homemade butt plate and pipes.  These guns were build to shoot, not to look at.

The utilitarian nature of these guns is also reflected in the carving.  About all they usually did was a simple carving at the tang.  They often didn’t even bother with beavertails, much less elaborate carving on the cheek piece or fore stock.

My gun was built in this tradition.  The butt plate is a cheap imitation of an English fowler butt plate, nailed on because screws were expensive and nails were cheap.  Since the curved top and bottom lines of the stock were derived from French lines, I suppose it’s fair to say that this stock has a French profile and an English cross section.  The trigger guard is a French Type D trade fusil.  They quit making this trigger guard in 1763. Since my gun is 1790’s vintage, the trigger guard would have been 30 years old or so by the time the NE gunsmith recycled it.  The lock is a common inexpensive English trade lock.  My side plate is folk art, which you do see occasionally, but more often the side plate is English, French or possibly even Dutch.

NE fowlers also tended toward smaller calibers that some of the other types of fowlers.  I think the smaller calibers had two advantages for them.  First, a smaller caliber gun is a better dual purpose gun if you want to shoot both shot and ball.  Secondly, the smaller calibers use less shot and powder than a larger caliber, but were still big enough to get the job done. Here’s a breakdown of calibers from Grinslade:

.50-.55   5
.56-.60   13
.61-.65   17
.66-.70   14
.71-.75   2
.76-.80   3




Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2012, 03:31:31 PM »
Quote
I don’t know why I should have to build an ugly gun just to keep his shoulder from getting sore.
This is NOT an ugly gun. There was something about the buttstock that was different and couldn't identify untill I took a spin through Grinslade's book. Typically these guns had alot of drop and naturally caused more pitch on the buttplate. Nothing wrong with the way you did this one. The big bore may be atypical, but not out of the realm of reality. You did good. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline kutter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 11:08:41 PM »
I don't know enough (anything!) about one style or another to take issue with it from that direction. Sure looks nice for #3 build to me though. Nice inlet work.


The couple of small points, probably already mentioned that catch my eye when looking at the whole gun. One is the ramrod tip. The material (antler) doesn't bother me one way or the other, that's the builders choice. \
The only thing I would do is make the shape of it's taper off the rod to the end a gentle concave shape instead of the convex shape it is now. A small issue but it would enhance the look greatly. It would take away the bulky look and still do it's job.
Perhaps darken the antler material also, but there's my personal choice entering the picture there.

The transition from lower forend to upper forend,,the line formed from the sweep of the entry point of the ramrod is taken up a bit too high towards the bbl.  
It takes away the gracefullness of the overall look by breaking up the long slender forend into pieces I think.

.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 11:17:12 PM by kutter »

Offline dogcreek

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 12:55:55 AM »
That's a very nice fowler. I have a hunch the bone will shrink as it dries but that's no big deal. Congratulations on a job well done.

Joe S

  • Guest
Re: A New England Fowler
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 08:22:38 PM »
Mike - Thanks for the complements.  I was being a little bit facetious, but I appreciate your thoughts and encouragement.  The pitch is at the extreme end of NE fowlers, but it seemed like the right way to go, given the very large bore.

kutter - I agree.  That ramrod pipe and the transition gave me fits.  The most amazing thing about this gun is that I didn’t saw the stock off and make the world’s first NE half stock fowler.

dogcreek – I think the bone has been so highly processed that it won’t shrink due to drying.  However, I was concerned about dimensional changes with time, in both the wood and bone so I took a few precautions.  The bolt holes through the bone a very loose fit, and a snug fit through the wood.  That way, the bone won’t crack if it shrinks around the bolt.  I also inlet it a little differently than I would have if it were brass.  The draft is a wider angle than normal, and extends very slightly above the surface of the wood.  If the wood contracts or the bone expands, the side plate will be displaced out of the inlet, instead of cracking, but the fit is close enough that if the bone shrinks, gaps around the inletting should not appear.  The side plate also floats in the inlet, so it has plenty of room to move without binding.  The only place there is actual contact with the wood is the area immediately around the bolts.  The rest of it was relieved about 0.010”.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 08:23:20 PM by Joe S »