Browning or In-The-White?

[HardBall]

I'll be building my first flintlock, a Chambers kit, soon.  My plan was to stain the stock kind of dark, like on antique furniture, that I've seen, and to leave the lock and barrel in the white, perhaps polishing it up a bit with steel wool.  I thought a darker color with brass furniture and the silver tones of the lock and barrel would look nice.

Are there any caveats with leaving a lock and barrel in the white?

Will it require polishing or is the polishing just to give a clean appearance and add some rust proofing? 

Will it patina even if it's polished? 

Will keeping the lock and barrel lightly oiled, then wiped dry, as I would a blued gun, prevent it from developing a patina?

[dannybb55]

How about blue? Arms have been blued since before there were guns. Bright guns give game a better chance, brown does not. I think that the current armoury bright thing is just the new fashion. I like dark iron.

[mark esterly]

been there, done that.  i thought that way too until i tried to shoot in the sun.  the shine looks nice but it will blind ya friend. 

[Acer Saccharum]

A 'white' barrel will eventually go brown. Unless you polish it a lot. Which is something I'm not interested in.

It's appropriate to have a musket in the white, but a fowler or rifle, do what you like.

Charcoal blueing is quite durable. (a tutorial somewhere on this). Heat blue is beautiful, yet very delicate, wears off in no time, rusts easily.  Cold blue, ugh.



This AM I put aqua fortis on my Lehigh barrel, and now it's in the damp box. I should go look to see if anything is left of it!

[HardBall]

A 'white' barrel will eventually go brown. Unless you polish it a lot. Which is something I'm not interested in.

Neither am I...

 By "polishing", I meant during the building phase, not as a regurlar upkeep.  I want it to ultimately develop a dull grey patina.  I was afraid if I polished the lock and barrel, during the "building" part, it might hinder developing a patina... something I do not want.  I was also afraid that by wiping it with a lightly oiled rag would hinder the developing patina?

[bgf]

Best way to get that gray for me is to do a good job cold bluing (you can polish as much as you want previous to that), then rub it back with a green pad and 30W motor oil (probably any weight is fine).  It takes the "edge" off the bright metal.  Used this way, Van's seems to hold up well, and I have another one done with Perma Blue that is doing fine also, but the color of the Van's is nicer to my eye.  I know, cold blue is evil, but that is when you are expecting a finish that rivals hot blue and that will stay that way forever.  If you are happy with grey, cold blue seems fine !

[Don Getz]

I have an english sporting rifle that I built in the mid 80's, left the barrel, lock and all the other parts, which were steel,
in the bright.  It has been to Canada and killed a nice caribou.   The crazy thing is that it has not rusted.  I have never
gone over it with scotch brite to clean up a rust spot, and I can't recall the last time that I wiped it with an oily rag.  As
an add on, it has some real neat John Schippers engraving on it..........Don

[Joe S]

For polishing locks in the white, I like FF grade pumice in oil, applied with a stick.  FF pumice will give you a soft, non-glare surface, plus it might even be HC.

Most folks who are going to brown a barrel polish to about 220 grit.  Any smoother makes it hard to brown.  If you are going to let the patina develop naturally, then I’d also use 220.  Steel wool is not the right way to polish your barrel for two reasons.  First, many barrels have such deep machining marks that they require draw filing, then finer grades of sandpaper.  Using steel wool, you’d be an old, old man by the time you got rid of the machining marks.  Secondly, it will give you too smooth of a finish.

As to your question about the oil:  Consider that what we call patina is oxidation of the metal surface.  So is rust.  Oil prevents rust by preventing oxygen from acting on the surface of the metal.  So, if you oil your barrel, the patina will develop much more slowly.

[Ed Wenger]

Sean,

I've had pretty much the same experience as Don with my hunting rifle.  The lock and barrel were kept in the white, and have stayed that way with minimal care.  The barrel was draw filed, sanded with 220 emery cloth, then polishing compound (same grit, 220).  After that I used a medium scotch brite pad.  Same thing with the lock, except I went down to 320 grit polishing compound.  Anyway, if any surface rust appears, I just scrub the spots with a medium scotch brite pad, then oil lightly.  It's a surprisingly durable finish in my experience.

           Ed

[Vomitus]

  Brown it if you hunt.

[HardBall]

Thanks for the response guys.  In retrospect, it would have been easier to find a picture of a rifle so finished, post it, then ask "how do I get this finish?"  Thanks for the help and patience, all.

The finish I ultimately "envision" is an antique or, old, looking finish not unlike tarnished pewter, I guess.  So, if I understand everybody, I should polish to a smooth finish, not to a shine?  Draw filing then sanding until I have a smooth sheen then, be careful not to oil it or protect it too well because that may hinder, or slow, the naturally developing patina?

I once sampled a used rifle from TOW that was a full-stocked plains style with it's metal work all left "in the white" (their description).  I decided not to keep the rifle but I loved the antiqued look of the barrel and lock and would like to recreate it on my flintlock rifle.

If I were to finish the barrel and lock, then oil it to stop any spot rusting from handling it, then remove the oil with a solution of alcohol and let it set up, would that allow the metal to due it's oxidizing/patina thing?  Or, is handling and use of the rifle the best way to develop a more natural, old looking finish?

The cold bluing, then polishing, or removing the bluing, sounds interesting as I love the look of a weathered rifle who's blueing has worn away form use.

[Long Ears]

HardBall,
Search French Grey  on this site and I bet that is the color you are after. Lets see, someone used mustard I think and another used Navel Jelly. Taylor claims the better you polish it the harder it is for the rust to take hold. I did a pistol white and just couldn't stand the staining as it aged. I have grown to like the Rust Blue the best and I have got to have about all of the different makes of blues and browns. It takes longer but I think it is the most durable. Good luck, just keep buying and building and you will find your favorite. Bob

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I have played with a finish on the barrel that is unusual. When my browning doesn't work usually in the winter, I have removed it, not completely leaving a residue, using steel wool then wiped the barrel with brass black. Brass Black works like cold blue but is not as durable on steel. Then steel wool the dark color back to a kind of pewter grey color. It gives a nice effect but like I said in not very durable especially around the vent area. After several firings the staining around the vent is very apparent. Not unsightly but definitly a patina. I done a couple of rifles like this.

Here's what it looks like.

[HardBall]

Then steel wool the dark color back to a kind of pewter grey color. It gives a nice effect but like I said in not very durable especially around the vent area. After several firings the staining around the vent is very apparent. Not unsightly but definitly a patina.

I hadn't thought of this- the staining around the vent area.

I like the looks of your rifle very much, especially the unevenness and the highlights at the joining of the barrel flats- gives it a worn appearance.

[HardBall]

HardBall,
Search French Grey  on this site and I bet that is the color you are after. Lets see, someone used mustard I think and another used Navel Jelly. Taylor claims the better you polish it the harder it is for the rust to take hold.

I did run across a post mentioning mustard and navel jelly though I don't know what navel jelly is?  Thanks for mentioning "French Grey", I couldn't remember that name or what to search for.

The fowler that Taylor built for LeatherBelly is what got my mind to working.  I hadn't realized, until that thread, that a polished finish would help to resist rusting.  I had assumed that that shinny finish would simply develop a "french grey" type patina in time all by itself?

[JDK]

A fine polish resist rust very well....bearings are an example.

Turtle wax on bright steel perserves it very well also.

Enjoy, J.D.

[Artificer]

My Navy Arms Brown Bess “Carbine” was always a chore to keep the barrel bright even when I wasn’t shooting it.  At Friendship in the decade of the 70’s, I had to clean it at night AND again in the morning as the infamous “Friendship Brown” rusted them overnight, no matter what I put on them.

A repro Charleville I used for reenacting at Historic Fort Wayne, IN during the same time period rusted just as bad.

With my current Pedersoli Bess, I expect to have to clean it at least once or twice a day to keep it from rusting at events and even when we are not blank firing.  One year when we did a battle demonstration outside the National Archives on July 4th, it was so hot that I left layers of skin burnt onto the barrel besides the rust from my hands touching it in other spots.

Now, I’m the kind of guy who CLEANS my muskets at least nightly and VERY WELL as soon as I get home from a reenactment.  However, I have never found anything that I could put on the barrel to keep it from rusting in humid climates like Indiana and Virginia.  Maybe someone else knows of something I have never tried, but I’ve tried just about everything.

So on a rifle would I care for a “bright barrel?”  NO way!! 

[Don Tripp]

Slow rust bluing is my favorite method for bluing. Pilkington's Rust Blue from Brownell's is the best. The finish gets darker with each application so you can just stop applying when you reach the color you want, then boil it and rub down with linseed oil, or go a little darker and then card the finish with a 3m pad or coarse material.

[aaronc]

Interesting thread,...........was there a standard for bluing or finishing barrels on the original rifles or did they have and use a variety of options as we do today ?

[HardBall]

I think a test is in order.  I've got one of those cheap-o CVA Bobcat .50 rifles that were sold at discount for $40 or $50 about 10years ago.  I think I'll strip the blueing, and try different finishes, maybe I could try several different things using different spots of the barrel?

Might work for trying my hand at engraving as well?  I'm fixing to try and find some maple stock fragments/chunks to practice carving might as well learn to engrave a bit as well.

[Elnathan]

Now, I’m the kind of guy who CLEANS my muskets at least nightly and VERY WELL as soon as I get home from a reenactment.  However, I have never found anything that I could put on the barrel to keep it from rusting in humid climates like Indiana and Virginia.  Maybe someone else knows of something I have never tried, but I’ve tried just about everything.

Ever try Johnson's pastewax? I use it on tools, and even when I was living in Mississippi near the Gulf it kept freshly cleaned metal rust free.

[Joe S]

was there a standard for bluing or finishing barrels on the original rifles or did they have and use a variety of options as we do today

By 1800, they had their choice of heat blue, charcoal blue, and various chemical blues and browns.   I’ve located a half dozen or so chemical colorants that were available by 1800, but you can be sure that my list isn’t exhaustive.  Those folks were pretty good chemists.  You can also be sure that anything that made it into the literature by 1800 had also been around for a while.

There are known military specifications for browning and for maintaining barrels in the white.  Of the colorants, browning seems to have been the most popular.

[Artificer]

Ever try Johnson's pastewax? I use it on tools, and even when I was living in Mississippi near the Gulf it kept freshly cleaned metal rust free.

Yes,I tried Johnson's and other paste waxes, linseed oil, and most every modern rust preventative sold.  None of them worked in these really humid climates.  Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Gus

[aaronc]

was there a standard for bluing or finishing barrels on the original rifles or did they have and use a variety of options as we do today

By 1800, they had their choice of heat blue, charcoal blue, and various chemical blues and browns.   I’ve located a half dozen or so chemical colorants that were available by 1800, but you can be sure that my list isn’t exhaustive.  Those folks were pretty good chemists.  You can also be sure that anything that made it into the literature by 1800 had also been around for a while.

There are known military specifications for browning and for maintaining barrels in the white.  Of the colorants, browning seems to have been the most popular.

Didn't know that,...........I like brown myself. Guess I'll add that to my study list for my first build.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Years ago I went to a woodworking store fore something to treat my table saw with. They sold me "Renaissance Wax" I thought they were giving my a line because it was so expensive. But I bought in anyway. I don't regret buying it and am grateful to them, the stuff is great on metal for preventing rust and the best final wood polish over stocks. It's somekind of Microcrystaline ? wax designed and used by the British museums for antiques.