BEGINNING BUILDER QUESTION

[Topknot]

 AS some of you know I am ready to start on my 1st build ever and i want to make sure that i am on the same page as the rest of you in the order of sequence in starting.
  I have a pre- carved dickert stock the lock is pre=inletted for the large siler percussion lock, and the ramrod hole is drilled. thats all. I have read that you locate your
  trigger first by measuring 4.5 inches forward of where the comb and wrist meet. Is this correct? Is this spot the center of the trigger plate? I am installing a Davis double
 set trigger, will this make a difference? Also it says to temporarily install the lock. does this mean that i have to go ahead and finnish inletting the lock at this point? HOW do
 measure to make sure the sear will line up to meet the trigger in the right place? ALSO i forgot to mention that the barrell channel is pre-inletted. I understand that you have to square the barrel up against wood in the breach area without the breechplug in at this point, but how far back into toward the wrist do you have to go? I know that
 these are alot of questions and i hate to have to ask them but, i want to make sure that i will have a clear gameplan and will not make crucial mistakes that would ruin
 my first rifle project.

                                                                thanks in advance,

                                                                                               topknot
 

[JCKelly]

You must install the lock first, so you know where to put the triggers, to interact with the scear.

Others here can help better. I dunno how to work with a pre-carved stock, only used planks.

[Acer Saccharum]

Is the barrel inlet? You gotta get that seated, plug and tang inlet. Figure out where the touch hole is going to end up. Sometimes one has to move the bbl back a little to get the touch hole to center over the pan.

[b bogart]

Get the lock located. The drum will have to fit into the lock recess. The breech end does have to fit tight to the wood at the end of the barrel channel.

[rich pierce]

  I have read that you locate your trigger first by measuring 4.5 inches forward of where the comb and wrist meet. Is this correct?
No, that is hogwash.
Is this spot the center of the trigger plate? I am installing a Davis double set trigger, will this make a difference?
As pointed out by others, the trigger is located so it trips the sear.  In other words the lock location determines trigger location.A
Also it says to temporarily install the lock. does this mean that i have to go ahead and finnish inletting the lock at this point?
Only if there is a pre-inlet for the lcok and you have no choice.
HOW do measure to make sure the sear will line up to meet the trigger in the right place?
You need a book and somebody to spend 30 minutes with you explaining things hands on.ALSO i forgot to mention that the barrell channel is pre-inletted. I understand that you have to square the barrel up against wood in the breach area without the breechplug in at this point, but how far back into toward the wrist do you have to go? I know that
 these are alot of questions and i hate to have to ask them but, i want to make sure that i will have a clear gameplan and will not make crucial mistakes that would ruin
 my first rifle project.
                                                                thanks in advance,

                                                                                               topknot
 

[Don Getz]

From the questions you have asked I assume you do not have a book on gunbuilding.    I would strongly suggest you
get one before you proceed.   In order to answer some of your questions, I would like to know who made the stock, by
that I mean who did the barrel inlet , lock inlet and ramrod groove and hole?   Before you clean up the barrel inlet at the
breech, determine exactly where to put the drum.   It should be positioned just in front of the breech plug, almost touching it.  After you have that established, you should hold the lock in it's pre-inlet position and see how this matches
up with the barrel inlet.....does the drum fall at the right place on the barrel?  If it does, you could then inlet the barrel
and breech plug tang.   Then inlet the lock.  After you have the lock inlet you could install the drum.   After all of that is
done, you can then locate the triggers.   I don't know who gave you the information about placing the triggers so many
inches from the  comb of the stock............that isn't how you do it.   After you have the lock inlet, you can then inlet the
triggers at the proper place to make the lock fire.   Go buy a  book............Don

[billm]

Recreating the american longrifle is a great book.Chuck Dixons book is also really good.both worth the money.

[Topknot]

MR. GETZ, my stock is from pacatonica river. it came with the barrel channel inletted, the lock pre-inletted for a large siler percussion at my request, and the ramrod
 channel and hole inletted. AS to where i got my information about trigger location, It is written on page 40 of chuck dixons  THE ART OF BUILDING THE PENNSYLVANIA
LONGRIFLE. iT says first ,find the location of the trigger. this is usually found by measuring from where the middle of the wrist and comb meet, and forward 4  1/2 inches.
This spot is where the trigger will be inletted later on, and this spot also determines the location of the lock. MR. GETZ ,i have books on longrifle building and i have a couple of videos on building. They touch on the broad aspects of building , but none of them goes into detail enough to answer my questions. what im looking for is the details on the right way, and the right order of sequence to start building my first longrifle.

[Eric Smith]

Tim, I am in the same boat you are. I have two building books and severall building DVDs. I have read and watched them every day for about 6 months before I began my build with a blank. Even then,  when I started my build, about a month ago, I found I needed to refer back to the books and the DVDs constantly. Arm yourself with as much instructional as you can. Don't forget to use the "search" feature on the site. A lot of the veteran builders here have been doing it so many times it's second nature by now. Building a rifle is not easy. If it was, everybody in the 18Th century would have built their own, like they did so many other things. Go slow, study, plan think about it, then repeat the process. You have come to the right place to find help.

 Best of luck  Eric

[Acer Saccharum]

Here's my big issue with trying to describe how to build a gun on line: we are discussing the details of the build using the written word. The written word is open to interpretation.

A gun build is a physical process, one that requires placing two or three objects together to see how they will relate. This is very hard to do for you from where I sit, because all we have are words. You and I don't have the parts in front of us at the same time, where I could SHOW you how and why.

A helpful tool is a digital camera, post your questions along with your pictures. That helps a lot. But it's still not as good as in-person, hands-on, building lessons.

As a side note, I often photo a gun as I go thru the various stages of building. I recommend you do this, too.

For your questions, you may draw on your stock, with pencilled in drum location, or lock outline; you may simply hold the trigger guard in place while taking the photo; place a stick note with an arrow pointing to your dilemma. You can even take an existing digital photo, and add arrows in a drawing program, or scan the doctored up photo.

This is still not as good as hands-on, in-person.

Also, this can be frustrating, because folks (self included) don't always 'get' what you're asking. Try to construct your questions clearly, and SIMPLY, and to-the-point.

That said, I will continue to help, but I recommend you keep up your studies, and see if there is a builder nearby who can give you some guidance.

Tom


Some photos, like this, are worth a million words. Keep your barrel square to the lock face as you inlet it. Since you have a pre-inlet bbl, this does not really apply.

[Don Getz]

Tim........sorry, I don't own any of the gunbuildiing books that are now available.   The measurement given in Dixon's book
has to be a generalized thing, but, it is not what you should use to locate the trigger.  The trigger is located so that it will
release the sear bar of the lock, I'm hoping Dixon's book will show this.   I made the statement that I didn't own one of the gunbuilding books that are now available, however, I have built over 90 guns in my lifetime, sure hope they are not
all wrong...........Don

[Acer Saccharum]

TOP, the next thing you need to be concerned with is lock and barrel location. Forget about everything else right now.

You have a perc lock, and it has a notch for the drum to sit in. The stock has a lock inlet. So the lock cannot move forward or back, up or down.

1) You must locate the drum on the barrel, if that's not already done. The threads on the drum should just miss the breech face. Then you must locate the barrel so the drum drops into the lock notch.

Usually, these parts need minor fitting. Hopefully, the barrel may have to be set back just a bit.

2) Now assemble the tang, bend it to the right curvature and inlet it.

3) Install tenons on the barrel bottom, and pin the bbl to the stock. (I sometime wait, because I'm lazy, so I tape the bbl in place.)

Once the lock is set, and bbl is set, you can move on to the triggers.
Trigger location is dependent upon the lock, where it hits the sear. But get the above things done, and then we can talk about the trigger placement and inlet.

[Don Getz]

Tom........thanks for your help.  I was trying to figue out how to get out of this mess.   As you said, it is difficult to explain in words how to do something.  Kind of like explaining how to play an accordian without using your hands.   The best
thing you can do when starting to build your first gun is to get some hands on help, such as Jim Chambers classes.  I
realize that Jim is teaching how to assemble one of his kits, but, it is still gunbuilding.   I am no longer able to give you
any info on using one of Pecatonica's stocks, haven't looked at them in years.   For about 20 years I spent two weeks out
of my year at Friendship, and would visit with Dick Greensides of Pecatonica, and was somewhat familiar with his stocks.
Don

[Acer Saccharum]

I can't tell you how many guns I screwed up, and had to make 'fixes', or wait for the paint to dry before I could get out of the corner! I still screw up, but the mistakes are smaller.

Unfortunately, in this business, you have to screw up to really learn your lesson. (like the nuns whipping me with the fishing rod). There are things you just don't do again, and there are things you learn to 'look ahead', to avoid problems later on. But with a first gun, you don't have this learned knowledge. It comes with experience.

The trouble is, and I am as guilty as the next, that you have this pile of parts that will someday be a Jacob Kuntz, or a J.P. Beck, and each time you screw up, that dream gets shattered a little bit more, until you have this piece of $#@* that you want to throw in the burn pile.

You gotta take it easy on yourself, and do the best you can. Because you will make mistakes, but that is just as much of the process as buying materials or books; you are investing yourself in the process, and mistakes are one of the costs of learning.

But, by Jingo, if by the end of your first build, you can't stop building, you have gotten yourself into a fabulous pastime, rich with history and friendship. Not to mention the carte blanche to buy tools and gun parts.

[JCKelly]

Nostalgia. Any of you guys ever talk with William Buchele? He ran his own business in Toledo, but always wanted to be an artist. Age 65 gave business to his son & started building rifles. Seventy-ish when he told me that when he watched TV this hurt, that ached, etc. But when he was in his shop he didn't notice any of these things that come w Maturity.

I used to build rifles, about nine rifles & two pistols before I quit for various reasons. Next-to-last was a German-silver mounted Vogler for Tim Graham, using a swamped Getz barrel.

Started up muzzle-loading shooting a few years ago after a twenty-year hiatus. Thought I knew how to load a muzzle-loader, used to sight in mine in at 50 yards no problem. Can't shoot the current crop of mass or semi-mass produced rifles worth a @!*%. Ego prevents me from recognizing this as my own fault. So I've gathered together locks, hardware, a profiled blank from the 1970's & what I hope is a decent barrel. Am reminded that I have attained such Maturity that spending time in the shop is preferable to sitting. Ordered a new copy of Buchele's Recreating the Longrifle , having misplaced mine over the decades and moves.

You may see some very, very basic questions from me here as I ?progress?

I can tell you that for the first few rifles one must think carefully each time one picks up a tool. I suppose this should always be the case. But for me, I reached the point when, for the last rifle, my hands knew just what to do.

[rich pierce]

I think when asking beginner questions, it helps to give us as much information as possible right up front.  The answers you need will be different depending on whether you are starting from a blank or a preecarve, and whether the precarve has a lock inlet, sideplate inlet, trigger inlet, etc.

Rant: Precarved kits with locks inlet and all make the whole business a lot harder and change the order of sequence.  I'm putting together a Rifle Shoppe kit at the moment and finding it very challenging compared to a blank build.  The lock, sideplate, and trigger are all pre-inlet with very little wood left to play with.  Because the parts are pre-inlet so close to final size, none of these 3 parts can be moved 1/16".  I had to drill the rear lockbolt so it would line up and engage the threaded hole in the lock that screws the detachable pan to the lockplate!  There was no other way to go with it.

[Bob Roller]

Back in the early 1970's,I used to get calls from Willy Cochran about making flint locks and at that time I had transitioned away from the early style tumblers and went to  the linked type. He had an idea as to how to g about copying this earlier style and with the help I gave him by answering questions about materials to use,I think he did a good job.
To try to tell in words or print about making lock or guns is to me sort of like a mail order hair cut,difficult at best.
Does anyone have any idea as to where his moulds went after he passed away?? I had some plates here for the flint lock but they are vanished from my shop.

Bob Roller

[Topknot]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU , to all that has responded. this is what im looking for.
IT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

                                                 THANKS AGAIN,

                                                                        TOPKNOT

[Acer Saccharum]

Was this TOO much information? Hahahha. Sometimes I get carried away trying to be helpful. 

[Topknot]

hey tom, the more information the better. i like details , im a detail man. i like to know not just how somethings done, but why. i really appreciate your helping me out.

                                               topknot

[Tamdar]

I have only one problem with what Acer said a couple posts back.If you don't have someone buying your guns, it gets difficult explaining to the " boss" why you need to cough up another $500-$800 for another gun!  . My father-in-law took pity on me and " contracted" me to build him a. 45 cal Lancaster. . But you will drum up some excuse because its just so rewarding.

[Acer Saccharum]

You will spend much more on alcohol or crack than you ever will on guns. And you'll be a much nicer person if your mind and hands are kept busy on rifles and not some other bothersome or illicit activity. It's a no-brainer. Any intelligent wife will understand the benefits.

[T*O*F]

I still screw up, but the mistakes are smaller.

A philosophy for everyone:

When in doubt, make sure your next step is a small one.

[Acer Saccharum]

Dave, sometimes my gut reaction is to FIX IN HURRY what I've done. That is not a good approach, because you can make things worse. It's better to step back and think about the different ways to fix something, and when you've cooled off, settle on a plan of action.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Hmmm... Two Old Filosophers............