Author Topic: Tang shaping (Read 8868 times)

Eric Smith · « **on:** July 16, 2012, 10:46:27 PM »

Here is apicture of some lines I have drawn on a tang. Iwas thinking about modifying this flared tang to look more like an early rifle tang I saw in RCA I. Does it look about right or did I miss it? I used a popcicle stick to trace. Should I use a hacksaw or a jewelers saw for the operation? What would you do?

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:23:02 PM »

A decent file will work fine for the job. You cold knock off the corners with a hacksaw first, but not required.

David Rase · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2012, 12:27:51 AM »

I think the thumbnail is a little too long and shaped too much like a tombstone. The parallel lines of the thumbnail got to go. Try shortening up the thumbnail length slightly and then use a gently convex curved taper connected to a smaller radius. Hope that makes sense.
David

Long John · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2012, 01:07:13 AM »

Generally the early rifleguns had flared tangs with a square end. It took a while for the shaped tangs found on French and British guns to "catch on" in the US. From the source books I have it seems German guns keep the square tang into the 19th century.

I generally select a gun a build one like it. I select the barrel stock, lock TG and BP castings all at the same time so that the gun is internally consistent. So I would look at that gun you saw the shaped tang on and ask myself: is the rest of the gun in keeping with this tang? That's how I generally approach things. It doesn't mean you have to do it that way.

Here is the tang on a Bucks County rifle.

You might want to consider something like that if your gun is a post revolutionary war gun.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Eric Smith · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2012, 01:16:47 AM »

Worked on it a while this afternoon and this is what I have so far.

The picture compares it with #28 in the RCA I. I think its to fat at the tip. Work on that tommorrow.

Cory Joe Stewart · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2012, 02:11:26 AM »

I did a thumbnail tang on the kit I am helping my dad with right now and it is tough to inlet. I am not sure why I find that part of the process so hard. The same was true on my rifle and it was a plain flared tang.

Good luck

Coryjoe

Eric Smith · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2012, 02:24:51 AM »

"Tough" is a hard road to follow. But if you take the tough road first, the other roads are easy.I have to work on that shape some, and then I have to inlet the thing.

Meteorman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2012, 02:34:55 AM »

Brother Smith -
it's hard to tell from the 2nd pic, but are you still working off a layout line ? Can't see one.
filing by eyeball can lead to issues since there's no (or very little) reverse when one side dives in a bit more than the other.
then the two sides end up chasing each other. at least that's true for me !
I suggest you might get some dykem blue and draw & coat and draw & coat and draw again until ya got just what ya want.
then the file goes to work.
and I'm sure you know this, but before you inlet it, don't forget to taper the sides into confluence with the barrel flat at the breech end. they're still a little proud right now.
cheers,
mike

JTR · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2012, 02:45:28 AM »

If you have the time, take a look at RCA 35j.
I think that's sort of what your shooting for. This picture is more a straight on look from the top than the #28 one you're looking at.
Also, you might consider practicing on some scrap metal, drawing it and filing it out, before you tackle the actual tang.
John

JDK · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2012, 03:10:29 AM »

As Mike suggest, always work toward a line. It is tough to get a fine line on metal. One approach is to attach a paper pattern to the tang with your fine lines drawn on. The other is to use pattern makers die or a permanent marker to color the metal and then scratch in a fine line. Either way should help.

Enjoy, J.D.

Dave B · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:14:40 AM »

The dificult job of shaping some thing to a picure that is oblque is judging what it is suposed to look like when you have it straight on.

Tom Currie · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2012, 02:36:13 PM »

Eric, I would re-read Davis Rase's post as I think he was on the money with his suggestion.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2012, 04:49:19 PM »

Joe S · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:58:48 PM »

These kinds of shapes are very easy to draw on a computer in Word. I can’t draw, so it’s a lot easier for me to keep things symmetrical with a computer drawing. Print out your drawing and glue it onto the tang, then file away. It looks to me like the base of your thumbnail is narrower than at the end. Is that what you want?

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2012, 10:09:06 PM »

One tendency I find myself having is making the notched steps too deep. These are often very shallow and look good because it.

Long John · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2012, 11:31:01 PM »

Whoa! Slow down there big fella!

Let's look at RCA 28 a little more carefully. As Jim pointed out the shoulders are very narrow on the tang. Yous are quite deep and do not appear symetric. I don't see and guidelines on your tang. Heed Mike's advice - draw it before you cut! The arched finial on the tang in the picture does NOT have any portion with parallel sides. The tang in the picture looks much shorter, overall, than yours. (The tang maker expects you to cut off what you don't want.)

Also think of where the tang screw is going to go. Picture 28i shows it. Is the tang you have going to put the tang screw right through the trigger? Your tang has to be short enough to clear the trigger. But the location of the trigger is governed by the location of the lock and that, in turn, is governed by where the vent is. Have you drawn this all out on the stock so you know exactly where everything is going to go?

RCA 28 is a very interesting riflegun! It is certainly a worthy goal. Think thrice, measure twice, cut once.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

David Rase · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2012, 12:19:44 AM »

Quote from: E. Smith on July 17, 2012, 04:49:19 PM

That sure is a long looking tang. I would be curious as to what is the overall length of the tang and what is the length of the thumbnail?
David

Eric Smith · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2012, 12:34:39 AM »

Quote from: David Rase on July 18, 2012, 12:19:44 AM

Quote from: E. Smith on July 17, 2012, 04:49:19 PM

That sure is a long looking tang. I would be curious as to what is the overall length of the tang and what is the length of the thumbnail?
David

The overall length of the tang as it appears in this pic is 2 1/2". The thumbnail is a hair over 5/8 " I might have gotten carried away with it, but it just sot of evolved into a life of its own. It's not meant to be an exact copy of an early Berks cty tang, just inspired by one. Since starting this build a month ago, (it is my first, and from a blank) I have come to the realization that this will not be a copy of anything. This will be an original "Burke Cty rifle. Look it up on the map.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:04:10 AM »

Quote from: Long John on July 17, 2012, 11:31:01 PM

Whoa! Slow down there big fella!

Let's look at RCA 28 a little more carefully. As Jim pointed out the shoulders are very narrow on the tang. Yous are quite deep and do not appear symetric. I don't see and guidelines on your tang. Heed Mike's advice - draw it before you cut! The arched finial on the tang in the picture does NOT have any portion with parallel sides. The tang in the picture looks much shorter, overall, than yours. (The tang maker expects you to cut off what you don't want.)

Also think of where the tang screw is going to go. Picture 28i shows it. Is the tang you have going to put the tang screw right through the trigger? Your tang has to be short enough to clear the trigger. But the location of the trigger is governed by the location of the lock and that, in turn, is governed by where the vent is. Have you drawn this all out on the stock so you know exactly where everything is going to go?

RCA 28 is a very interesting riflegun! It is certainly a worthy goal. Think thrice, measure twice, cut once.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

I have roughly scetched out the lock on the wood. It places the sear exactly 1 1/2 inches behind the breech. The tang is 2 1/2 " in length with just short of 1 7/8 " available to place the tang bolt.I think that will work, but it never hurts to throw these ideas against a sounding board. What say you?

tallbear · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:14:36 AM »

Eric
I am finishing up RCA #28 at the moment and I made the tang 2 1/4 " overall.

Mitch

Eric Smith · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:29:54 AM »

Mitch, please send me as many pictures of your build as possible. I would love to know any other details of the build you would care to share! RCA 28 has had a lot of appeal to me!

tallbear · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:36:52 AM »

Eric can't supply much at the moment as the finish is wet

I will take a photo of the tang tonight if you like.I am delivering the rifle at Dixons and will post photos of the finished rifle after Dixons.I do have a pic of the roughed out patchbox.The hinge was a bear

Mitch

Eric Smith · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:39:17 AM »

I just realized that the inspiration for my tang shape came from Jim Turpins DVD, the 4th example of tang shapes. Its longer and early acording to him. I liked it so I copied it.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:42:31 AM »

Quote from: aka tallbear on July 18, 2012, 01:36:52 AM

Eric can't supply much at the moment as the finish is wet I will take a photo of the tang tonight if you like.I am delivering the rifle at Dixons and will post photos of the finished rifle after Dixons.I do have a pic of the roughed out patchbox.The hinge was a bear

Mitch

Yes I bet it was. It's a butt ugly patchbox design. I cannot explain its appeal. Can't wait to see the finnished product.

tallbear · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:47:30 AM »

I think it's one of the coolest patchboxes out there

Mitch

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Author Topic: Tang shaping (Read 8868 times)

Meteorman

Joe S