Sycamore Wood for stocks

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

American Sycamore will be fine to make a Longrifle out of.
Remember the barrel channel is what... an 1/8th of an inch thick.

If you're a traditionalist, all good and fine to consider, either way, you have to be mighty careful on what ever wood you use.

There's always a debate on everything.                                                                                                                                                                                                 
 My thought is, because this is the way the barrel channel was made at the time, for the majority of said rifles, doesn't mean it has to be made that way today.   
 You can sure bet that some guys had a smith build their rifle with a bit more heft in the wrist to better fit there hand, what's not to say the same to be true with the forearm.
Custom guns were built all the time back during the Hawken area, the great debate of whether Jacob built a flintlock Hawken, to me, surely he did, but another discussion for another time.

Make sure how the grain runs through the wrist, try what you think would work, the Gatlin gun was a stupid idea, until someone produced it.
What are you out except a little time, especially if you get the tree for free or relatively cheap.
Be inventive, change the world, where were we before Black Pwder.

[Habu]

The sycamore used in luthery--at least in the 18th-20th centuries--is "European sycamore" or "French sycamore" (Acer pseudoplatanus), a member of the maple family.  It works much like soft maple (i.e., most of the maples other than Acer saccharum). 

American sycamore is Platanus occidentalis.  In hardness it is softer than the softest cherry; the quartersawn stuff works about like tulip poplar.

[rich pierce]

The sycamore used in luthery--at least in the 18th-20th centuries--is "European sycamore" or "French sycamore" (Acer pseudoplatanus), a member of the maple family.  It works much like soft maple (i.e., most of the maples other than Acer saccharum). 

American sycamore is Platanus occidentalis.  In hardness it is softer than the softest cherry; the quartersawn stuff works about like tulip poplar.

Don’t stand under an American sycamore in a wind storm. When we were in St. Louis we had a street near us lined with sycamore trees. After a big wind storm one night I was walking the dog and could barely make it down the street. Several cars were badly damaged by the limbs. Adjacent streets lined with oaks had a few twigs down. 

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is.....
how long were they standing before this storm.
I've seen some very huge Sycamore trees.
They didn't pop out of the ground like that.

I have some huge maples in my yard that need to come down
because after all these years they're dying from the inside out.
Usually why trees fall over, or are blown over, let alone to say a tornado
will blow over even the  mighty Oak.

[rich pierce]

It’s a soft, weak, attractive wood. This is established by wood products engineers, not an opinion.

Hardness scale.

[TDM]

Agree with Rich. I've used Sycamore for turning bowls and boxes on a lathe, and used it for carvings too. It's a very good wood for those purposes but I wouldn't want a stock made from it.

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

One a great scale of hardness.
But what does it represent in the spectrum of things?.

770 is compared to what, is like saying a #$@* rolled in powdered sugar is a jelly doughnut 
Just being funny here to   make a point.

Is this scale of Hardness taken from a Quarter Sawn piece of sycamore?.
Quarter Sawn will be the only way I'd make a stock from a lot of woods, mainly because of any curl, flecking patterns that come from the wood, as well as it just being a more stable piece of wood to be used for a stock.

As I stated yesterday, because the over all of said stocks were made one way, this was merely for production, as I also pointed out, I would make the barrel channel and wall a bit thicker. I've seen curly maples and walnut forearms flop around like a wet noodle.
 more wood to the forearm belly and sides, isn't going to change the appearance
So why keep building them the same way, sure most of them have held up over time, but to use a piece of Sycamore per sé and have a little more wood to create a firm stock.

Sycamore Quarter Sawn for anyone who has seen it is absolutely beautiful and in my Opinion would make a great stock.

I'm working on gather a few blanks and should have them in a few weeks in which I'll start creating a Flintlock and a percussion 42" swamped Barrel early Traditional Jacob Hawken in a .54 Caliber. I'll post as I go for you all to see.

As well I will research the strength of Quarter Sawn Sycamore @ the wrist of said stock and post my findings.
Unless I'm missing something, this is the critical point of stress with any wood, and must be straight grained throughout or risk being damaged.

The Hardness test is not a true measure with in the discussion of this conversation, merely because it's created using a piece of flat cut wood, pressed with a ball bearing to measure the amount of #'s of pressure it can take until the fibers are damaged, or penetrated.
Again, "not" from a piece of Quarter Sawn wood.

I will test to see what the difference is, if I can not find any results on the internet.

[rich pierce]

Enjoy your project!

[T.C.Albert]

Wait. The guy that began this thread started it 12 years ago?
Is it a topic again or is “LH”  resurrecting  a 12 year old question ?
I would guess the op may not be wondering about it anymore but at least he
seemed to be generally asking for advice. He never did say how his project turned out.
Looks like we’re counting on “LH” to show us now. I look forward to seeing the progress pictures.

TC

[Dennis Glazener]

I, for one, can't wait to see the finished product.!
Dennis

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Received a post from a sawyer who will be bring 3 nice pieces to me weekend after next.
I will take pictures of them in each step.
1. when I receive them.
2. after I clean them up and square two sides
3. Laying out the stock.
I'm researching everything I can at this point, but you know, it's something like the egg, it's all how you produce it and handle it.
Give the chicken enough oyster shell and it won't break that easy.
Give the stock wood great consideration in the build  correct placement of the wrist to grain displacement.                                                                                      1. correctly, and in my case, with a bit more strength by making the belly and barrel channel walls a might thicker say 5/16ths total on all sides.
I also have a few other ideas I'll post once I try them, whether they work, or why they did not if that be the case.

 Things change over time, somethings can be improved on, and somethings haven't yet, but either way if a person has the compassion and determination, one can usually figure out a way to make it work.

[rich pierce]

Umm, the fore-end is under no strain. It’s something to hang onto, a place for the ramrod to go, and something to hold the ramrod thimbles. That’s all. No stress on it.

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Yes sir, with the exception of when the barrel is taken off for any type of cleaning or maintenance.
It's a very thin piece of wood throughout that area.
The added thickness I talk about isn't much, just a little insurance. and gives me a bit more tolerance to play with.
The under rib is where the thimbles screw unto, mounted to the bottom of the barrel not the forearm it's self.

So because were talking or debating the strength of quarter sawn Sycamore, my view or thoughts for building a stock, is to give it a little more meat so to speak in the area I might deem as being a potential problem.
This is a personal choice, and a rifle to be built and used by me, not a commercial endeavor, and even with that thought, again leaving a bit more wood in the belly and sides, no one is going to know or feel the difference, while giving the area in question a added bit of strength. a possibility of it falling against something and cracking the forearm part of the stock.
 

[rich pierce]

Your build, have fun. Didn’t know you were planning a halfstock.

My responses are not just intended for you, as you aren’t seeking input. They are also for the rest of the readers who might consider using weak, soft woods for a build.

[T.C.Albert]

Will the wood be kiln or air dried? If air how long? More to the point, how long ago was the wood sawn from a tree? Just curious.
Thanks,
TC

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Will the wood be kiln or air dried? If air how long? More to the point, how long ago was the wood sawn from a tree? Just curious.
Thanks,
TC

The log was cut more than 2 years ago. it was quarter Sawn 2 days ago, when I get it, I'll check the moisture content.
Buying on what I call the blind makes it a little hard to know what you have, until you have it.

For the build in general I will be sure to use the best wood I can find and to be sure that it is stable.

[okawbow]

I have used American sycamore for the string bridge on violin/cello instruments that I make. These bridges have to withstand a tremendous amount of compression force that is left on all the time. Sycamore also makes a nice looking back and side wood for instruments.

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Your build, have fun. Didn’t know you were planning a halfstock.

My responses are not just intended for you, as you aren’t seeking input. They are also for the rest of the readers who might consider using weak, soft woods for a build.

Assumptions , I take nothing personal Rich, just posting what I think, and what I will try, If I'am wrong, I will post this as well.
I'm 65 years old, I have no fear of trying anything outside the box.

The 3 pieces of Sycamore I'll be getting will cost me $60.00, so the only thing I'll be out other than that, is the time I put into building the stock.

I wasn't aware of how the thimbles were placed in a full stock, so I was wrong here, remembering that of a half stock on an old TC Hawken I had some years ago.
But again, a bit more wood in my case gives the pegging a bit more to hold onto.

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

I have used American sycamore for the string bridge on violin/cello instruments that I make. These bridges have to withstand a tremendous amount of compression force that is left on all the time. Sycamore also makes a nice looking back and side wood for instruments.

As an old fiddle player and guitar, Mandolin, yes you're correct about the bridge wood and the amount of pressure it is under.

I have plans also to build a A-Style Gibson Mandolin from some of this Sycamore, so along with the bridge wood the tops are under a bit of constant pressure as well.

As I stated in an earlier post, to me the point of concern is in the wrist area of the stock/wood, so reassuring this area to be as straight grain as possible, I see no concern with using Sycamore wood for a gunstock

[Hungry Horse]

 Calico Hardwood in Windsor California makes economy grade stocks for a major manufacturer of centerfire rifles out of Madrone blanks that have been autoclaved. I built my first tradegun on one of these blanks, and am building a chunk gun out of another piece of madrone right now. It makes the prettiest “Cherry” you ever saw. And, has taken some real abuse on my tradegun for a lot of years.

Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

1st I've heard of madrone. Interesting.
"Also known as Strawberry tree or Madrona, this beautiful Pacific hardwood has pink & tan colors with an occasional red streak. Green lumber is unstable ..."

[ScottH]

A friend of mine used to live in Roseburg OR. He said madrone was the preferred fire wood in that area and would cut a couple pickup loads a year

[T.C.Albert]

How’s this wood coming along? Was quartersawn last we heard.
Just wondering.
TC

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Weekend after next is when I will have it.
Have a couple of plans coming in the mail.
So will be able to check first what the moisture content is.
Then start laying out the stocks.
Cutting the first one.

[L.H. Smoke Pole]

Just brought this home. So still in the rough.
Hope to run it through the big sander tomorrow