Author Topic: OK, Have a Look! 2 (Read 10137 times)

Eric Smith · « **on:** July 20, 2012, 10:30:17 PM »

I hate to do this but this is the best way I know to checkup on my progress. Here are some photo's of the blank I have been working on. It's my first, and very flawed. I'll let you look at it a comment (good or bad) is welcome.

Crude early cheekpiece in the making.

I haven't exactly figured out how to approach those side panels yet. So they are fat.

Tang is partially inlet. Have not bent the tang yet. OK, have at it! Recommendations appreciated!

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2012, 10:45:25 PM »

Leave it square till you have all the parts on it....(too late)

Eric Smith · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2012, 12:30:51 AM »

After looking at it again, Mike, I assume you are talking about the area just behind the breech in the lock area. Yaeh, your right, but its still pretty fat there. I can plane it square again. I am just not too sure about how much/ thick the wood should be between the barrel and the outside profile before letting the lock in. Right now I measure a hair over 1/2 ".

ken · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:01:40 AM »

I would measure the thickness of the lock at the bolster and leave a little bit extra Saves a lot of inletting. Make same on both sides Ken

rich pierce · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:04:33 AM »

What Mike said. You should not do any shaping of the buttstock till you have the lock, triggers and buttplate in place. The buttplate determines the shape of the buttstock.

Do you have a book? What sequence are you following?

For your lock panels, measure the lock bolster (the thickness from the ledge that rests against the barrel to the outside of the plate). You can plane or saw the lock side of the stock to that thickness in the region of the lock panels if the lock is beveled.

I am not sure what you are doing with that cheekpiece. It looks block-ish. By all means, stop shaping the buttstock till you get the lock inlet, then the triggers, then the buttplate.

It would be better if you followed a sequence in a good book and checked with an experienced builder to guide you in what you do next, every day.

Just jumping in with a rasp is not going to work. You've lost all the advantages of a blank: Square surfaces to clamp in the vise, to insure you keep things square, extra wood to clamp and bang up without harming the final product, ease of drilling lock bolts and tang bolt on something squared up, etc. Your current approach is turning a blank into a pre-carve which has many limitations and problems and will need to be adapted after the fact to the parts you inlet into it.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:09:17 AM »

Quote from: E. Smith on July 21, 2012, 12:30:51 AM

After looking at it again, Mike, I assume you are talking about the area just behind the breech in the lock area. Yaeh, your right, but its still pretty fat there. I can plane it square again. I am just not too sure about how much/ thick the wood should be between the barrel and the outside profile before letting the lock in. Right now I measure a hair over 1/2 ".

I'm saying leave the whole stock square. Only start shaping after all the parts are inlet.....and what Rich says.....

Eric Smith · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:27:10 AM »

Thanks for the advice. I don't mean to stop the thread here, more advice is needed. I merely mean to thank those who have responded so far. It is so frustrating to work on this thing without someone standing over your shoulder saying "Do this now" or " This is what you wan't to do now". This is a learning curve, but all I have messed up so far is an $80.00 blank. I can afford to start over if I need to. The barrel and lock, the buttplate and the trigger guard remain the same. This is an experiment meant to amplify experience.

rich pierce · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:29:03 AM »

Eric, if you do not have a book, video or online tutorial that explains the sequence of a build:

Your next step is to bend the tang next to the stock profile and inlet that.

Then you can decide whether you want to dovetail in your underlugs and pin the stock to the barrel now or later. Builder's choice, but do it while the fore-end is still square.

After that inlet the lock, knowing where the breechplug ends and where you want the pan to be.

That's enough for a while.

Here is a basic outline or sequence: http://www.americanlongrifles.org/WorkShop_frame.htm

Eric Smith · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:35:22 AM »

Rich, you and I are thinking alike. I have been hesitant to bend the tang and finish inletting it. I guess its like making a final commitment to the stock. Then install the underlugs and pin the barrel with temporary pins.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:52:09 AM »

I used to have a tutorial covering all this over on the TVM board's gun building forum. I don't know if they still have it up there or not.
www.muzzleloadingforum.com.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2012, 02:35:12 AM »

Its no longer on the ML Forum.. Here is a pdf of Mike's tutorial. I don't know whose site it is.

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/iB_html/uploads/post-71-31335-black_powder_build_primer.pdf

Tom Currie · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2012, 02:40:28 AM »

Eric, Buy Chuck Dixon's book. You will a least have a step by step process to follow.

cheyenne · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:56:50 AM »

By all means, look at Mike's tutorial.....it's great and straight forward.

Bill of the 45th · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2012, 04:02:16 AM »

Eric What has been already said, and also know that you can thin the tang quite a bit, which will also make it easier to bend. With everything installed, it makes it easier to visualize what wood needs to be removed. Keep it going, a bit at a time.

Bill

Eric Smith · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2012, 09:28:52 PM »

I began inletting the tang. Its still a little proud, yet. Should I bend it more? Inlet it more? Or just plan on filing off the excess? I filed some off the bottom, but its still a little over 3/8" thick. I planes the lock panes level and square down to about hair over 1/2" from the barrel. Drew some preliminary lock placement layout. Any thing loook off?

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2012, 09:57:38 PM »

There is no problem with filing the excess tang off, that I can see. Tangs taper down on old guns toward the rear, sometimes as thin as 1/16. I like to have plenty of metal for the tang bolt to countersink in. You'll be fine where you are.

Look before you file off to see how your inlet is. If you have gaps, you may need to forge the tang out(flatten) a little to fill the gaps. It's nice to have some extra thickness for that.
Tom

Eric Smith · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2012, 10:05:14 PM »

There is about a .005 gap in a couple places.

David Rase · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:28:05 PM »

Quote from: E. Smith on July 21, 2012, 10:05:14 PM

There is about a .005 gap in a couple places.

You can peen the areas on the tang to close up small gaps.
David

Eric Smith · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:36:41 PM »

Thanks for the tip. I'll try that. I take it it's a common practice? I seem to remember a post about wood swelling when staining and finishing are done. If I didn't imagine that, would that help?

bgf · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:52:39 PM »

Eric,
Others have answered your current questions well, but I notice you appear to have left a lot of excess wood under the lock where the trigger will go. Since that is your next step (or would be for me, anyway), it is a good time to look at it and make adjustments. Since the wrist starts to work its way down before the tail of the lock (where the sear is located, you have a lot more room in there than you might think. I just did one, for example, where the wood under the lock looked scary thin, but when I got to inletting the triggers, they had more than ample room to function and can go a bit deeper if necessary. I took pictures last night, but on my "new" phone, so you'll probably be done by the time I could figure out how to extract them, but I thought I would at least mention it for you to look at!

Eric Smith · « **Reply #20 on:** July 22, 2012, 12:03:03 AM »

Judging from the test hole I have about 3/16 of an inch of extra wood that can come off at the base of the ramrod channel. after that I can slim on down as much as I want. Post your pictures. I am not going to remove that wood for several days if not a few weeks. Right now I am studying underlugs and lock inletting. Thats my next challenge.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #21 on:** July 22, 2012, 12:09:47 AM »

Quote from: David Rase on July 21, 2012, 11:28:05 PM

Quote from: E. Smith on July 21, 2012, 10:05:14 PM
There is about a .005 gap in a couple places.
You can peen the areas on the tang to close up small gaps.
David

Exactly what teqnique would you use to peen the tang? Peen it in the stock or on an anvil? Use a flat punch like you might on a buttplate? New builders ask the stupidest question, don't they?

rich pierce · « **Reply #22 on:** July 22, 2012, 01:37:41 AM »

If the tang is still too thick (barrel is in bottom of inlet and tang is not down yet) you can be aggressive. If not you have to be circumspect. You have to widen it by pushing the edges outward. Then it can be filed almost flat on top again.

Out of the stock, with the barrel in left hand and hammer in right, I'd place the tang over the horn of an anvil and with a smooth-faced ball or cross peen hammer I would make angled blows outward, from about 1/8" from the edge, toward the edge.

If you use light blows it will mostly stretch the top of the tang. If you use firmer blows it will stretch full depth.

The tang will start to curve a little when you stretch one side. Stretching the other side will bring it back. Check the tang is not all curved right to left when you get it close, and straighten as needed.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #23 on:** July 22, 2012, 05:06:12 AM »

Good explanation, Rich.

You will need to file the tang smooth on the sides again. Make sure that you don't file off what you just peened! You will need to re-fit the tang to the stock.

T

Eric Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** July 22, 2012, 03:03:29 PM »

Thanks guys! That worked like a charm. No gap anywhere now. This gives me an opportunity to show off my anvil. I thought I was indulgingbin a whim at the time I bought it, but it earned it's keep today.

News:

Author Topic: OK, Have a Look! 2 (Read 10137 times)

ken

cheyenne