Author Topic: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun  (Read 8743 times)

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« on: August 02, 2012, 01:52:23 PM »
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 02:10:56 PM »

Yep, they are pretty rare.  ;D

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 04:08:28 PM »
There are just too many phony looking things about that gun.
Dave Kanger

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Offline Dan'l 1946

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 04:53:06 PM »
The locks have a familiar appearance.

Offline Longknife

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 05:16:26 PM »
I laughed my @$$ off when I first saw that piece on Gunbroker  a month ago. It seems his original asking price has gone down quite a bit , somebody better GRAB IT NOW!!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=290410361
Ed Hamberg

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 06:31:23 PM »
 PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE!!! This is not even a good fake. I hope if somebody bought this monstrosity it was the fraud unit from some police agency. I have seen some beautifully built, and aged, long rifles, and trade guns, That had the builder wanted to, could  easily have passed them off as antiques. A nicely aged firearm requires the eye of an artist, and the hand of a master gunsmith.
 many years ago I set out to replicate a fine antique chiefs grade trade gun featured in a coffee table book called "The Peacemakers". This gun would be everything I wanted in an aged replica. I pictured myself strolling the Rendezvous with this gun on my arm, being stopped every few feet for someone to admire it. As I have said before I am a firm believer in examining everything with some magnification, that includes photos in books.  Under magnification I found that this "gorgeous antique" had a lock in it just like the one I intended to use to build it. I do mean "just like" the one I intended to use. Complete with the vent sprue from the lost wax casting process, still on the hammer, and GRF acid etched behind the hammer, on the plate. A close examination of the tacks on the stock, and the trade silver ornamentation, along with the barrel being marked Montreal, leads me to believe this gun is a Green River Forge trade gun somebody antiqued up, and sold as a relic. It was supposedly part of a museum collection, and added to a book by a "renowned" expert. I am now suspicious of everything this author prints, and will not replicate anything in one of his numerous books.

                                    Hungry Horse

Offline Ken Prather

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 08:09:05 PM »
I know of a fine artist that for years offered his paintings for about $300 each. He hardly ever sold anything back then. THEN he started pricing his works for about $3000 each and he started selling his work.... the same work. He now has a gallery in Cabo and is pretty successful... perception is reality.

K
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 10:51:54 PM »
WOW.  Ya have to wonder in cases like this, whether the seller is clueless or not.
Andover, Vermont

westerner

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 12:49:36 AM »
Might could be one of Mikes creations?  Nah, the architecture looks all wrong.   ;D

I like it.  Would be a great prop gun in a movie about a great American indian Chief. They dont mind spending the cash when making epic westerns. Well, they didnt that is.  :-\

  Wes.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 12:50:32 AM by westerner »

Offline TMerkley

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 02:37:29 AM »
Not enough dents, dings and scratches to be that old.  Just an observation.  If it was as old as they say, it would most likely be falling apart.

Offline Dan'l 1946

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 03:06:14 AM »
  I have sent a query to the seller requesting the provenance on this piece.
                                                              Dan

Offline Curtis

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2012, 07:09:16 AM »
Among everything else the screws even look new... nice and clean slots.

Curtis
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Offline TMerkley

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2012, 08:35:40 AM »
The spring for the frizzen looks like the one on my Chambers lock I just bought.  I wonder if someone could pull the lock and look for manufacturers identification marks? 

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 04:12:22 PM »
 Good call Curtis, I missed the screws, but upon reading your response I looked again. You are correct, they look undamaged, which would be nearly impossible. The slots are way too wide, and the screws aren't orientated for, and aft, as they should be. The Germanic style locks on a trade gun are worrisome, and I think highly unlikely. Even Belgian trade guns sported round faced locks in most cases.

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Offline Dan'l 1946

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 05:15:57 PM »
  There's an awful lot that is questionable about this piece. Much to my surprise, the seller has not responded to my message.
   In truth, even if viewed as a modern built gun, it  is still lacking from an historical or P/C perspective. IMHO that is.
                                        Dan
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 05:16:44 PM by Dan'l 1946 »

Offline nord

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2012, 05:30:41 PM »
And here I thought that "Chief's Grade" merely meant more tacks. ::)
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

westerner

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2012, 01:09:00 AM »
Fifty seven grand?  That's only about the price of a new pickup truck.    :-\

It's only money.  ;D

 Wes


Offline LynnC

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2012, 04:23:21 AM »
Not even a good fake!  It couldn"t have been made to decieve.  Someones fanciful idea of a double bbl trade gun.  How bout those big fat lock panels.  Even trade guns were more elegant.....
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Michael

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012, 03:38:29 PM »
You've got to be kidding!?

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 04:24:52 PM »
Here is another one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=299332535

This "INDIAN POLICE FRONTIER TRADE GUN" was at the Jefferson County show in Brookville last Labor Day weekend. The owner at that time was selling it as a 100% fake and NOT authentic. IIRC he was asking $175 or best offer. Someone walked in and purchased the gun, fabricated a story and put it on Gunbroker.

 

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Double barreled Chief's grade trade gun
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 04:38:10 PM »
Mark;

  At least this one is an old gun, or make from old parts. The double couldn't fool a blind man. This one looks pretty real, with the possible exception of the legend stamped in the stock, that looks sharp, and  new.

                   Hungry Horse