Author Topic: ok how do you..??  (Read 3590 times)

Offline elk killer

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ok how do you..??
« on: August 13, 2012, 01:28:04 PM »
have been experimenting,, trying to make some knife sheaths,,
with brass tacks,, inserted in the leather,
question is,, how do you bend the ends over,,??
on a few it works great,,but most of the time ,,it either brakes off,,
or wont stay tight,,has to be some secret to it..
 got the tacks from Crazy Crow
only flintlocks remain interesting..

Offline Chris Treichel

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Re: ok how do you..??
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 03:41:37 PM »
Peen em... get a ball peen or better yet a cross peen hammer.  Use tacks and make yourself a washer by drilling a hole through some similar material.  Pierce the lether and insert the tack... thread the washer and cut off the stem with only a little bit past the washer. Now give it little taps to flatten the metal... think tap instead of bash since you are trying to move the metal not crush everything.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: ok how do you..??
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 05:45:16 PM »
 Heat the steel shank of the modern tack red hot. Bury it in warm wood ash for an hour. Tap it through the leather, then bend the tip over with needle nosed pliers, now start the next bend at the surface of the leather, and just hammer it flat with the leather surface. Making a simple socket for the tack head to rest in, will keep it from being smashed.

                         Hungry Horse

Offline LRB

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Re: ok how do you..??
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 09:10:11 PM »
  I do it similar as Hungary Horse, but I don't bury them in ash. Just heat the shank, let cool and use. I push the shank through a pre-punched hole, then use needle nose pliers to bend the shank like a fish hook, then drive the point into the leather. That keeps the points from ever snagging anything.

Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: ok how do you..??
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 08:36:06 AM »
Bending the steel shanks is IMO more of a modern method -  I don't bend the tacks - just peen them and no longer even anneal the shanks. I started doing it that way after inspecting several original sheaths and belts (a few of 1840-50's vintage - the rest 1860's-80's - about 60% solid brass/square shank the balance steel shank with brass head - steel shank/brass head BTW can only be documented to the post 1870's era. This is a BIG help because I commonly use 400-600 tacks on a later period tack belt - and I've tested them to my satisfaction and my customers as well.)
Only a couple of the originals examined had the tacks bent over and then the only bent ones were at the top where the most stress would occur. In all other cases, like the originals shown below, they were clipped flush with the leather and then peened - no washers just peened and do it lightly.


To do it properly it is best/easiest to have a piece of brass flatstock say 2-3" wide by 3/4-1" thick by at least 8" long (the wider and longer the better) to use as an anvil, a double thick piece of the rubber poundo board or similar, a light weight ball pein hammer, and a pair of end cutters ground so that the face is flat.
Lay out your pattern - I just sketch the lines in with either a red mini ball pen or a soft lead pencil. For  spacing I put in a few of the major points and then eye ball to fill in the pattern.
Once the pattern is layed out use a leather awl to start the hole - BTW the leather needs to be a GOOD grade of veg tan and although I have used thinner I recommend it be least harness weight, 8/10 or 10/12 oz with a nice tight grain. Drive in three of four tacks at a time and then turn the piece over with the heads on your brass "anvil" - the anvil should be mounted on a heavy piece of wood or layed over a nice firm piece of poundo board. This cuts down on noise and also keeps it in place. Take your end cutters and clip the shank off flush with the surface of the leather. Then using the flat face of the hammer tap LIGHTLY on the shank until you flatten out the center ridge left by the cutters. Then using the ball end tap a few times to flare the end of the shank and drive it slightly below the surface. Run your hand over the piece and make sure the shank is not poking out. Turn the piece over and make sure the tack heads  feel solid - no matter how careful you are some shanks will want to bend side wise - if they do yank em out and do it over. Still no matter what over time and with much uses some tacks will pop out - most original pieces are missing a few tacks here and there so it just makes the piece more authentic!
This sounds more complicated than it is and it goes pretty fast once you get the rhythm.

Here's an original using solid brass (shank and head) square shank tacks, - (they are still available from www.thetrunkshoppe.com - not cheap but the only source I've been able to find for them and for the so inclined the only historically documented tack for pre-1870 usage):

Also lost tacks are common on tacked leather goods, see the original in the first pic on the left, which, to me, implies that they were not normally bent/clinched (pulling a clinched tack out usually tears the $#@* out of the leather). In most cases the sheaths I examined were also glued probably using some form of hide glue.
Again in my experience when using tacks the leather needs to be good and firm - soft leather just doesn't cut it . The solid brass square shank tacks are also much grippier than the smooth steel ones.

And here's one of mine - an 1870's model - using the commonly available steel shank/solid brass head tacks (again these historically can be dated to the early 1870's at the earliest if that is important)


and here's the front side........


as always other's mileage may vary..........
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Offline elk killer

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Re: ok how do you..??
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 02:37:52 PM »
thanks Chuck,
thanks to everyone else as well..
i knew i was doing it wrong
Mark
only flintlocks remain interesting..