Bending a Barrel

[Beowulf]

Greetings,
I've built 12 guns over the years and was able to bend the barrels on my smoothbores to get the patched ball on target. All the rifles had no problems until the last. It is a .36 cal A weight which shoots about 10" high and 9" left. In order to get it to shoot close to the center at 40 yds, I need to use a very high front sight and low rear sight and have the front sight way to the left and the rear way to the right. It looks goofy this way. I tried to bend the barrel, with no luck; it acts like a big spring and doesn't want to cooperate. After struggling with it for a while I contacted the manufacturer and he said to send it back and he would straighten it. Which he did. I still have the problem. Does anyone have any suggestions? Or do I just need to give up and replace the barrel? Anyone else had a barrel that just wouldn't work?

Thank all of you for the replies so far. Let me ask the question another way. Has anyone here actually had success bending a rifled barrel? I have bent 3 smoothbore barrels and had success. Is the bending of a rifled barrel a different creature entirely?
Thanks

[Longknife]

Bewulf, If the manufacturer couldn't fix it then I would request a new barrel....Ed

[Acer Saccharum]

Have you sighted down the bore? If it's a rifling/bore problem this severe, then you should be able to see the bend.

If crowned lop-sided, the ball will be directed by the crowning.

Check your patches. Are they burned or torn on one side only?

Acer.

[Daryl]

Holes can be in the centre at both ends, however can be way wonky inside. This was a problem with one barrel I had, with the runnout inside running from one side to the centre just before the end of it's 42" length. This caused the same problem you have with that small bore.  Rear sight almost out of the dovetail right side, front sight almost out on the left - all to get it centred at 25 yards.   I rebarreled as that barrel was 20 years off warrantee when I aquired it.  The main problem with fighting with crooked bores (flats not concentric) such as this, is as it warms up, the barrel will bend/warp and groups wander. Cool it down and groups come back to the sights, warm it up and off they go again.

[Acer Saccharum]

Beo, is the barrel GROUPING pretty well at 40 yd? Loading such a small bore it is easy to deform the ball. I am not making any assumptions here, I just want more info before I tell you to change barrels.

Holes can be in the centre at both ends, eh.

Does this mean in the middle? I am not Canadian, so I am just wanting some clarification.

[Dphariss]

Greetings,
I've built 12 guns over the years and was able to bend the barrels on my smoothbores to get the patched ball on target. All the rifles had no problems until the last. It is a .36 cal A weight which shoots about 10" high and 9" left. In order to get it to shoot close to the center at 40 yds, I need to use a very high front sight and low rear sight and have the front sight way to the left and the rear way to the right. It looks goofy this way. I tried to bend the barrel, with no luck; it acts like a big spring and doesn't want to cooperate. After struggling with it for a while I contacted the manufacturer and he said to send it back and he would straighten it. Which he did. I still have the problem. Does anyone have any suggestions? Or do I just need to give up and replace the barrel? Anyone else had a barrel that just wouldn't work?
Thanks

Barrel is junk.
Chances are the maker either did not straighten it or its straight and the exterior is not centered with the bore.
Either get a new barrel as a replacement from the maker or write it off and start over.

Dan

[Roger Fisher]

Well Wolfie:  If it were mine ( I do love a challange) since you have gone down the building road as far as you have with that rifle, I would be thick headed enough to try again at the bending her to where you want her!!

On one hand the barrel maker seems to have sent you a headache but on the other hand it gives you a chance to 'overcome' the problem.

I would first consider what another poster suggested.  check your shot patches, torn on one side???  Have a close look at that muzzle, is she champhered cockeyed?? While your at it is the muzzle end of the riflling battered?  Stuff happens!

If that all looks okay then I would bend the "b    ' and make sure I bend her somewhat past the point that you were trying to get her to!  They always spring back somewhat.  Get those sights centered on the flat and after bending shoot her again and see.  $#*! what can you ruin on that barrel?  It make take several sessions to get her to cooperate. 

Of course, if you feel you simply want to rebarrel that is another option, please remember I am thickheaded and hate to admit that I am stymied!

[Clowdis]

You've had to bend the barrels on all 12 guns?

[Ky-Flinter]

Beowulf,

You asked "Has anyone here actually had success bending a rifled barrel?"  Yes, I have.  I had the exact problem you describe with a 38" B-weight in .50 caliber and was able to "bend her straight".  But first......   

I agree with the above posts, first make darn sure the barrel actually is bent and not some other problem.  On mine the muzzle and breech holes were centered, the fired patches looked fine and I was getting 1 hole groups at 25 yards, only about 6 inches left of point of aim.  Moving the sights as far as the dovetails would allow did help but the sights looked like they were about to fall out of the dovetails.

I took the barrel out and laid a 4' straight-edge along each barrel flat and measured the widest gap with a set of dial calipers.  I marked the spot on each flat and noted the measurement.  The gap on the left flat was .120" and on the right flat it was .040".

At this point, I called the barrel maker to discuss the situation. He outlined the measuring process (which was just the way I had done it), so I told him my findings.  He agreed it was bent.  He is convinced UPS uses his barrels for prybars sometimes.  He told me to try bending it and if it didn't work, he would replace it.

You are right about these barrels being springy.  You have to bend them way past where you want them to end up.  Figure out which way you want to bend it, jig it up on blocks at each end and apply force.  I used a big c-clamp with a dial indicator to guide me.  Bend a little, measure the gap.  Bend a little more, measure again. Nothing.  Bend a lot more.  Measure again.  Nerve wracking, but I finally got her done.  Shoots like it's supposed to now.  Good luck.

-Ron

[Dave B]

I have had to straighten several barrels over the years and use a heavy duty bar clamp with hard wood blocks that are cut with a v notch to support the flats of the barrel. They are over four inches tall from the bench top. I had to deflect on rifle barrel almost the full four inches to finally get it back to straight. It was a custom 50" swamped barrel that tweeked durring shipping. I waited a year and a half to get it and with the maker offering to make it straight again I thought it best to keep it  to get the project going.  It is scarry how far that barrel was flexing before it finally responded to the clamps pressure.

[Herb]

I got  a Green River Rifle Works .40 x 7/8" x 36" (I think it was) barrel that was picked up off the shop floor when they closed business.  Could see that it was crooked.  Neill Fields put it in the crotch of a cedar tree and honked on it, but couldn't get it to bend.  Next I went to Bill, a friend who has a hydraulic jack steel barrel bending vice for modern rifle barrels.  He really had to crank down on that barrel, would put a helluva bend on the bad spots.  Took him a couple of hours, and you would not believe how far the ends of that barrel bent up from the "V" bend area.  Looked like two or three inches at each end, with the barrel supported maybe eight inches centered on the jack.  He had to bend it probably in four directions in two or three spots.   He finally got it pretty good.  I built that up into a Sam Hawken squirrel rifle (copied it from photos of a real one for sale on some gun sales web site).  The sights were close on when I finished it and it never did walk the groups as the barrel heated up, and I got it hot to see.

[Birddog6]

About 2 years ago I had the same problem with a .36 A barrel.  It shot 1' low & 9" left.  I sent it back & they said they straightened it, didn't make a bit of dif.  So I asked them to replace it which they did & the new barrel shot fine.

From what they told me, if the bit gets dull, or not enough lube or to much pressure on drilling a small bore like a .32 or .36, the bit can bow & the bore is arched & then ya have a problem. 

I do know from that time on, as soon as I get a barrel in a stock & the lock & trigger in, I shoot it right then, as I want to KNOW FOR SURE that barrel is correct... and not have to replace it when I get the rifle done. I want to replace it right then.........  I epoxy some sights on the barrel & go out back to the range & shoot it & know right then for sure before I go any further. 

Were it me, I would ask them to replace the barrel........  Keep the old one til you get all your dovetails & etc. just where the old one was, then return the defective barrel if they want it back.

[Dphariss]

I was going to post concerning the difference in ML barrel and the quality compared to modern centerfire barrels and quality but it would likely just start an argument.
Yes part of it is how cheap ML shooters/buyers are.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I was going to post concerning the difference in ML barrel and the quality compared to modern centerfire barrels and quality but it would likely just start an argument.
Yes part of it is how cheap ML shooters/buyers are.

Dan

Cheap? I have had to scrape and scratch for my parts at times, and I know most everyone else has been in the same boat. The ML tradition in America is to make something out of very little. This is part of the whole history of the longrifle.

I am fortunate in the last few years to be able to buy new custom barrels, but even they need some work sometimes. It's good to discuss what might be done to fix a problem, because we can all learn from it.

Acer

[lew wetzel]

there is nothing cheap about muzzleloading!!!!!at least that what my wifes says.....lol

[Roger Fisher]

there is nothing cheap about muzzleloading!!!!!at least that what my wifes says.....lol

Holy Kats Lew were all those wives at the same time

The devil made me ask that!

[jerrywh]

Anneal that barrel and then it will straighten. Fill the bore with charcoal when you do it and hang it vertically if you don't have an oven. Even if it warps some you are going to straighten it antway.

[Acer Saccharum]

Jerry, anneal it with a torch? Cool slowly, I assume.

Never thought of that.

[jerrywh]

If you hang it virtically and heat it evenly from the bottom to the top all the way around it is unlikely to warp. Just let it air cool. It won't be completely annealed but it will take the spring out of it. You can pack the bore with lime or charcoal. The time it remains red hot is short and will not carbonize the steel enough to cause any harm. Heat it slow and evenly. It's nice to have an oven but eveybody is not so blessed. Just get it to a dull red 
 Acer. Your idea about turning that thin barrel is a great idea. Put the sleeve on the thin part to run the steady rest on. This prevents the steady rest from rolling down the circumfrence of the barrel.  Super good idea. And it can't flex.

[Dphariss]

Here is something to contemplate.
Any BL barrel like a Shilen or Douglas as a round blank, button rifled (cheapest way), 28-29" costs about what a 42" swamped octagonal ML barrel does, GM anyway.
A GOOD BL barrel, single point cut, runs 265-380 for a unturned blank or perhaps a round contour,  this for barrels under 30" and in common calibers. Complex barrels like a Garand barrel from Krieger is $460+-. Still must be fit and final chambered so a rebarrel is going to cost the Garand owner probably 600 bucks minimum.
People here gripe because GM barrels have no breech plug.
People think $100 dollar locks are pricey but complain they are not perfect when a GOOD lock costs $200-300 maybe more. Bob Roller still makes locks but sells them to shooters in Europe because Americans will not pay the price for a really good lock.
If you want quality stuff you have to  pay for it. Apparently the American ML shooter and builder will not pay for a premium barrel or a first quality lock.
I have 2 Hawken barrels on order. Don't know what they will run but they will be chrom-moly and won't be crooked nor will the bore size vary several thousandths from end to end.

As a result of people wanting cheap parts a certain number of the ML barrels one gets are garbage.  Simply because the maker is on a "budget", I guess.
Dan

[jerrywh]

Dpharris--- I'll have to say dido to that.
  But some people just don't have the money they have to do with what they can afford. Personally I wouldn't make a barrel for less than $1000.00. I've done them by hand.  That is why I don't mind paying For a Getz or any other top grade item. Any body who has made a flintlock by hand from scrap iron,  doesn't mind the price of a chambers lock at all. For the guys that can't afford the good stuff I recommend making your own. That is what made guys like Gusler, Myself
and others like us. We never had the money back then or the access to ready made parts.
There was never a truer statement than " Necessity is the father of invention"